model 1 sales

[QuietShootr]

does anyone know about the quality of model 1 sales complete uppers? Their prices are so cheap it seems a shame to not buy.

Junk.

[CarlosDJackal]

Saginaw,

When I was in the Army the M16A2 was the standard issue weapon before the M4 became more widespread. Tankers used them and so did the 11M's assigned to Bradleys. It worked for them. Plus having worked with tankers they aren't jumping in and out of their vehicles all day.

My main point is why was a soldier buying a piece of shit that was already proving to be unreliable on the range to a combat zone? What is the unit armorer doing by allowing parts of it to be used when it is forbidden to do so? Where is this soldiers chain of command while this is happening?

Don't ask me, when I was still in DATs were issued Grease Guns!!

[thedog]

Don't ask me, when I was still in DATs were issued Grease Guns!!

We had Greaseguns too. A modern tanker bringing cheap am stuff to war? Come on. WTF, over?

dog

[Storydude]

Can someone tell me WHY to run from model 1 screaming?

ER Shaw barrels are good., Cerro Forge uppers are good, and the price cannot be beat.

I've put over 650 rounds with my model 1 upper, on a mega lower, and only had ONE DoubleFeed due to a crappy used, beat, USGI mag. Sure they are a bargain kit, but in the grand scheme of things, the only thing that can break in the upper is the Bolt and carrier. Order a M1S upper without bcg and order one from whomever you like.

I'm happy as hell with mine and I paid 2/3 of what a "Chart" upper would. I staked the Gaskey better and fired it, not worrying about who's name was on the box.
A3 Carbine upper with chrome lined 5.56 Heavy barrel. I paid 512.00 including shipping. Is it my "Go to" Weapon should the Zombies attack tomorrow? No. that's reserved for my AK. Has it proven a reliable platform? A resounding yes. Hell, even my "Cheap" M1S Bolt had a 5 coil extractor spring, black insert and d-ring installed.

Not trying to start a flame fest here, but people saying "Junk" with no facts to back it up is very TOS'ish.

My 5 cents (Inflation)

[rockm4]

Saginaw,

When I was in the Army the M16A2 was the standard issue weapon before the M4 became more widespread. Tankers used them and so did the 11M's assigned to Bradleys. It worked for them. Plus having worked with tankers they aren't jumping in and out of their vehicles all day.

My main point is why was a soldier buying a piece of shit that was already proving to be unreliable on the range to a combat zone? What is the unit armorer doing by allowing parts of it to be used when it is forbidden to do so? Where is this soldiers chain of command while this is happening?

Thats the same question that I ask him, His reply was that they were making them dismount and going door to door. And the A2's were to long. And they were not issuing M4's. He said this was his third time back and I guess he though that the cherry's should kick the doors. I didn't ask, it seemed to be a sore subject anyway.

[dcmdon]

Storydude,

It sounds like you got a good one.

I have no personal experience with Model1 stuff. But this is what I've heard.

1) customer support is reasonably good. i.e. if something isnt right they'll work with you.
2) some people get guns that run flawlessly
3) some dont

So we can conclude that the quality of the product you get is a bit of a crapshoot.

Given all that, and the fact that the factory DOES seem to support its customers, it would seem that Model1 would be agood place to buy a plinker.

With that in mind, it may be a good place to purchase an upper to host a .22 kit. Just a thought.

[Storydude]

Storydude,

It sounds like you got a good one.

I have no personal experience with Model1 stuff. But this is what I've heard.

1) customer support is reasonably good. i.e. if something isnt right they'll work with you.
2) some people get guns that run flawlessly
3) some dont

So we can conclude that the quality of the product you get is a bit of a crapshoot.

Given all that, and the fact that the factory DOES seem to support its customers, it would seem that Model1 would be agood place to buy a plinker.

With that in mind, it may be a good place to purchase an upper to host a .22 kit. Just a thought.

I will say, the CS there is excellent. They answered every question this AR noob had without a problem. I have a few friends with M1 uppers and they seem to be happy with them. I will admit that price was the major factor for purchasing from them. I'm poor and ammo's not cheap.

Is it on par with an LMT or Noveske? Nope, but then again for 1/2 the price can you complain? Is it good enough for me and proven reliable enough for me? A resounding yes.

[Failure2Stop]

Can someone tell me WHY to run from model 1 screaming?

Not trying to start a flame fest here, but people saying "Junk" with no facts to back it up is very TOS'ish.

The Model 1 Sales thing has been covered a few times, most recently in the link Iraq Ninja provided above.

From .223 Rem chamber to sub-standard material and testing, the potential for failure is larger than I like. I am not saying that buying and shooting a M1S kit will result in spontaneous vaporization of the shooter, but simply that in the grand scheme of things it is much more likely to fail than the better made/tested/controlled offerings.

Maybe I should have clarified myself.
Instead of, "Run from Model 1 screaming," I should have said-

Unless you intend on using your carbine for nothing more serious than the occasional show and tell, debris ventilation, or safe-keeping in a heavy metal box (unless you want to become intimately familiar with trouble-shooting, parts replacement, and chamber-reaming) it would be prudent to choose a higher quality upper receiver and/or lower/LPK.

I find CS to be nearly irrelevant. CS is what you have to deal with when the gun breaks. The best CS would be to provide a product that doesn't require the user to call up asking for it to be fixed.

I counter your "TOS'ish" statement with the thought that those that would attempt to equate a sample of 1 (with uncomparative firing schedule) with "as good as" is much more naiive than shelling out a little more cash for a known performer. Frankly I am getting tired of the repeated accusations that some response is "TOS-ish" on this forum simply because someone is advocating a better piece of equipment. It has about the same relevance as the accusation that anything they don't like about an institution or authority as being "just like the Nazis". Don't like what I have to say? No problem. Intelligently discuss your perspective and I will do the same. Most disagreements here are simply due to different perspectives and use, in which no-one will be "right", just more or less relevant to different segments of the AR community. Nobody jumped in here accusing you of being "TOS'ish" because you are hugging an inferior gun, why would you do it to those of us that are offering valid and relevant advice within the context and intent of this forum?

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-From the M4Carbine .net Mission Statement

I would say that is rather NON-TOS'ish. But hey, whatever.

[rob_s]

So is that the new M4C insult, you call everyone that doesn't agree with you "TOS-ish"? Talk about pot meet kettle.

Model 1 has a HORRIBLE track record with anyone that has spent any amount of time around the AR world. Their lower parts kits refuse to fit in in-spec lowers, barrel nuts showing up hand-tight on uppers, barrels that are 4140, untested and non chrome-lined, carrier keys unstaked, too-short and canted FSBs, bolts untested, the list goes on and on.

Can they be made to run? I'm sure that they can. Do they often run for long? In my experience no they do not. Can some of that be blamed on inexperienced assemblers? Perhaps so.

If you're happy with your wholly untested rifle with 650 rounds through it then that's all that should matter. You're getting one over on everyone else with your "as good as" upper. Get back to me when you have 10x that many rounds through it and let's see where we stand. Keeping in mind all the while that you have a sample size of ONE.

[Bolt_Overide]

Saginaw,

When I was in the Army the M16A2 was the standard issue weapon before the M4 became more widespread. Tankers used them and so did the 11M's assigned to Bradleys. It worked for them. Plus having worked with tankers they aren't jumping in and out of their vehicles all day.

My main point is why was a soldier buying a piece of shit that was already proving to be unreliable on the range to a combat zone? What is the unit armorer doing by allowing parts of it to be used when it is forbidden to do so? Where is this soldiers chain of command while this is happening?

Gunz,

Last time I went over I was embedded with 101st in an IT support capacity. I brought over my colt commando upper because I didnt want to have to deal with a full length weapon, but I had an 06's blessing in this.

There were a few other soldiers I met who had personal uppers with their weapons, but absolutely none of them were line dogs, to a man they were maintinece and support personel.

Of the ones I did see, one of them was carrying a RRA, another was carrying an Oly... It cost me a lot of consteration trying to figure out whether I should do something or not, I finally gave in, and went and talked to the soldiers and explained to them that they had unreliable equipment, and that they should stop using it. The oly owner listened, the RRA owner didnt. So I sent an anonymous email to his CO, and that ended that.

To some extent I felt bad about doing that. But what motivated me wasnt the need to get my nose into that soldiers business. It was that I didnt beleive that the soldier 1 understood the risk he was taking, and 2 didnt think the soldier had the right to take that risk for his buddies, who would expect him to put down fire if the SHTF there. I know it wasnt likely that they would have seen any action, but neither is it likely that Ill need my 45 on my way to tulsa this morning. But, that doesnt mean Im leaving it home either.

Bottom line, theres a reason there is SOP for no personal weapons, and shit like this is reason number 1.