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Thread: Why SW MP15 use carbine buffer weight instead of H buffer

  1. #31
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    I just came across this thread and found the discussion interesting as I have found shooting Wolf caused endless FTF.

    To solve the problem, I have removed the H Buffer and also a Young Manufacturing M 16 chromed bolt carrier which, is heavier than a regular by a couple ounces.

    Function testing seems to show the short stroking problem is solved. The gun is a 14.5 N4 set up for a can (which I have no interest in)

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder6 View Post
    I just came across this thread and found the discussion interesting as I have found shooting Wolf caused endless FTF.

    To solve the problem, I have removed the H Buffer and also a Young Manufacturing M 16 chromed bolt carrier which, is heavier than a regular by a couple ounces.

    Function testing seems to show the short stroking problem is solved. The gun is a 14.5 N4 set up for a can (which I have no interest in)
    Just so I understand, you couldn't get the bolt to lock back with Wolf ammo and a can on the weapon? You have another issue (as cans create tons of back pressure).

    My guess is that the chromed Young BCG was dragging somewhere (have seen this many times and is why we do not use/sell/support them).


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 02-02-09 at 15:33.

  3. #33
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    No. Lock back was not an issue. I would chamber and fire one round, the second round the bolt would close on top of the round before chambering.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder6 View Post
    No. Lock back was not an issue. I would chamber and fire one round, the second round the bolt would close on top of the round before chambering.

    Roger. Your issue is one of two things (or a combo of both). Worn out mag spring or the bolt is going to fast. So you need to try newer mags (or better mags or change out your mag springs) and then change out your buffer spring and install the H (or heavier) buffer.

    Basically what is happening is that the bolt is going so fast that the magazine cannot keep up.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 02-02-09 at 17:31.

  5. #35
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    Yup. Mags are brand new PMags. New Buffer Spring installed and H Buffer removed. New Gas rings. None of these resolved the issue. Swapping out the heavier carrier for a regular one seemed to do the trick in an initial function check of the gun. I plan on more elaborate testing this week with various ammo types including more Wolf, the source of this issue. Gun ran fine on Remmington, it was Wolf that choked. On the first mag! The trouble shooting is more a matter of principal because I can always shoot the better ammo. But I ran into a situation a while back where better ammo in quantity was not available so I bought a couple cases of Wolf as a fall back and brought it to a class. I tried to make use of it and was unable. Luckily I had enough of the good stuff to finish the class.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder6 View Post
    Yup. Mags are brand new PMags. New Buffer Spring installed and H Buffer removed. New Gas rings. None of these resolved the issue. Swapping out the heavier carrier for a regular one seemed to do the trick in an initial function check of the gun. I plan on more elaborate testing this week with various ammo types including more Wolf, the source of this issue. Gun ran fine on Remmington, it was Wolf that choked. On the first mag! The trouble shooting is more a matter of principal because I can always shoot the better ammo. But I ran into a situation a while back where better ammo in quantity was not available so I bought a couple cases of Wolf as a fall back and brought it to a class. I tried to make use of it and was unable. Luckily I had enough of the good stuff to finish the class.
    Hmm. Interesting. I think there is def. something strange going on with your weapon as a can GREATLY increases the amount of back pressure.

    Wolf is of course weak, crappy ammo, but there might be another issue going on.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 02-02-09 at 18:14.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Hmm. Interesting. I think there is def. something strange going on with your weapon as a can GREATLY increases the amount of back pressure.

    Wolf is of course weak, crappy ammo, but there might be another issue going on.


    C4
    Lol. Same thing some of the other smart ones think as well. Thats why I am playing around with learning and troubleshooting the issue.

    I can also add the particular run from Workers Paradise micros 3/100th longer than the Remmy. Still, the first indications is the lighter carrier (also non chromed) runs the ammo. It is an interesting problem to resolve.

    This is not a war gun so I have some space to resolve the problem. I think AR's are like 1911's in this regard.

  8. #38
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    What is the effect of subsequent rounds dragging on the bottom of the carrier vs the last round. Does the follower extend high enough up that it too drags on the carrier or is the only source of drag on the last round the mag lips?

    I'm wondering if a mag is oversprung but pressure is too low (e.g., Wolf) to not generate enough carrier velocity, that if carrier drag on next rounds in line causes FTFs? But when you up the pressure level of the ammo, if that's enough to overcome carrier drag? Any thoughts?

  9. #39
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    Dunno. I can say that when the gun has the problem, I was firing a single chambered round, then clearning by pulling the mag and manually removing the round now stuck half way in the chamber. Reseating the mag and chambering to fire one more round. Repeat ad nauseaum. I think I am accurate in stating I never got the the end of a F'n mag. But these are new Pmags.

    The CMT carrier has less meat than the Young does. I have a scale at work that can answer precisly the differences but to be honest, I haven't taken the time to compare other than a visual. But, I was thinking along those lines that the larger carrier was causing more drag. Just didnt worry about where since changing it out seemed to resolve the problem.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaglocker View Post
    So is the carbine buffer an invention of the commercial AR market?
    The carbine buffer was the norm in both the mil and commercial carbines for a long time. The H and heavier have replaced it on the mil side, but it's endured on the commercial.

    If you have the carbine buffer in a gun that runs, don't lose any sleep over it. Most shooters will never know the difference.

    If you need a new one, or are buying a complete gun, get an H.
    Last edited by ST911; 02-02-09 at 23:48.

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