rancher who held ilegals at gunpoint trial starts !

[Saginaw79]

Legally speaking...How can an illegal immigrant attend a civil trial?

Or is this a criminal one?

Can an illegal actually have civil rights in the US?? I dont understand how a non citizen can have the rights of a citizen

We have lost our damn minds.

Yes they can. A illegal sued Ranch Rescue's owner and WON

The guy lost his land, all of it, and the illegals got it, or the market values for it

and yes, we've lost our minds in this nation...

[Jay Cunningham]

Can you actually hold someone at gun point for tresspass (posted, non-posted?)?

The more pertinent question is - what if they decide to walk away? "Stop, or I'll shoot!" Can you justify a shoot under these circumstances?

[MarshallDodge]

I have a good friend that lives down that way (Hereford, AZ) and it's a really nice area. It's a shame that these people have to live there daily lives knowing that there will be trespassers on their property.

As already mentioned, some of the trespassers litter, defacate, thieve, and commit other crimes. I wouldn't be too happy about it if this was my property.

Maybe Mr. Barnett did not handle things the right way but if anybody should be going to trial for not handling things right, it should be the federal gov and the Border Patrol.

[Jay Cunningham]

I have a good friend that lives down that way (Hereford, AZ) and it's a really nice area. It's a shame that these people have to live there daily lives knowing that there will be trespassers on their property.

As already mentioned, some of the trespassers litter, defacate, thieve, and commit other crimes. I wouldn't be too happy about it if this was my property.

Maybe Mr. Barnett did not handle things the right way but if anybody should be going to trial for not handling things right, it should be the federal gov and the Border Patrol.

I agree with you, but that's really not the point. I wouldn't like it if a band of 16 illegal Mexicans were trespassing on my property either. But grabbing my firearm and moving out to confront them would probably land me right where it landed this dude.

There are smarter ways of dealing with this.

[RSS1911]

I know nothing about living on the border and I know even less about the actual facts of this case.

With 25 years of trial experience, I can tell you one thing ... there's more to this present action than appears. The hint is the conspiracy charge.

[ZDL]

I agree with you, but that's really not the point. I wouldn't like it if a band of 16 illegal Mexicans were trespassing on my property either. But grabbing my firearm and moving out to confront them would probably land me right where it landed this dude.

There are smarter ways of dealing with this.

How's this?

You stroll on out CCW style. Talk to them. Wave your arms tell them to NOT advance towards your house and to turn around and go another way. Your hope is they will go back across the border but in reality you are simply concerned with the safety of your household. They continue to advance in your direction which is the same as your household. You continue to yell not giving up ground. They continue to advance... You being to realize there is a language barrier. So then..................? Fill in what you would do from here, or start another scenario.

Do you run back to your house grab your wife and kids and take off in your car? Call LE and wait it out? Fortify your house?

I agree rolling out with the gun 1st was retarded. Start with presence, move to verbal, if out numbered 16-1 I say skip the intermediate weapons and move on to drawing your weapon. If they continue to advance... Oh f-ing well. Maybe here might be the only time I would ever consider a warning shot... ever. Wide open field on your land men women and children... I could justify a warning shot here. Can't believe I just said that.

[Honu]

the thing about the border areas is lots of drug runners carry guns if you are holding them under gun point chances are they are not going to pull theirs

the other thing remember the drug runners have made the south so unsafe many of the 4x4 guys wont go down to/on some trails unless they have numbers cause lots of stuff happens against us citizens like getting their cars stolen getting robbed at machete point by gangs of illegals etc..

look how now the parks dept wont give out research permits for the southern parks cause the ilegals and ilegal drug runners have made it so unsafe for them !!!!!


maybe people not familiar with the southern border problem really dont understand it sounds like


if you have gangs around where you live ? and gang members were trashing your property nightly what would you do !! please tell me you would just let them keep doing it then ?


if one day you are out working and 16 people come onto your property and you tell them to leave and they tell you to F off what would you really do then !!!!
retreat ? to where ?


what if you are out rebuilding your fence for the 120th time and they come cut it in front of you and say F you what you going to do about it !
again what would you do ?

[Jay Cunningham]

How's this?

You stroll on out CCW style. Talk to them. Wave your arms tell them to NOT advance towards your house and to turn around and go another way. Your hope is they will go back across the border but in reality you are simply concerned with the safety of your household. They continue to advance in your direction which is the same as your household. You continue to yell not giving up ground. They continue to advance... You being to realize there is a language barrier. So then..................? Fill in what you would do from here, or start another scenario.

Do you run back to your house grab your wife and kids and take off in your car? Call LE and wait it out? Fortify your house?

I agree rolling out with the gun 1st was retarded. Start with presence, move to verbal, if out numbered 16-1 I say skip the intermediate weapons and move on to drawing your weapon. If they continue to advance... Oh f-ing well. Maybe here might be the only time I would ever consider a warning shot... ever. Wide open field on your land men women and children... I could justify a warning shot here. Can't believe I just said that.

I'm not trying to turn this into a "what if" scenario because this can be gamed all kinds of ways and that's not really my intent. But...

Moving to confront 16 strangers by your lonesome is not my idea of smart - armed or not. In fact, it is my idea of "very stupid".

There's a saying where I work: Only two things can come from this; nothing, or nothing good. This saying directly applies to moving out to confront 16 strangers with a firearm.

[Jay Cunningham]

if one day you are out working and 16 people come onto your property and you tell them to leave and they tell you to F off what would you really do then !!!!
retreat ? to where ?

You guys are really not getting it - the guy chose to confront these 16 people. He could have chosen not to confront them. Would this have been "right" or "wrong"? It doesn't matter - he could have contacted police and border patrol, armed himself, and observed them at a discrete distance. Hell he could have taken their picture or recorded them on video. If they moved toward him he could have evaluated the potential threat and assessed the option to safely retreat.

I know - "he shouldn't have to!" etc. Emotion should not trump common sense.

[MarshallDodge]

I agree with you, but that's really not the point. I wouldn't like it if a band of 16 illegal Mexicans were trespassing on my property either. But grabbing my firearm and moving out to confront them would probably land me right where it landed this dude.

There are smarter ways of dealing with this.

I did not say that it was OK to go out and point a firearm at a human being that was not posing a threat. What I am saying is that if I were in his shoes, with illegal aliens trouncing across my land on a daily basis and the border patrol being uncooperative, then I might do something irrational.