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Thread: Storing Rifle With Hammer Cocked (empty chamber) & Safety On

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    Absolutely right. As soon as we can figure out a way to make sure every person performs every action under every condition in every environment when faced with every possible kind of stress without making any mistakes, things will be much, much easier.
    Hell if we could do that we would not need guns as we would all just get along.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  2. #72
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    Tagged because of my own personl interest in these matters

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    The problem is most shooters even the best trained break trigger finger discipline under stress. Jeff Hall a NRA LEO instructor conducted a study while he was hosting several NRA LEO trainings. During that study he found that among even the best leo's and military shooters over 95% of them put there finger on the trigger at some point in the training when they should not have. I have taken several active shooter classes from him he makes some good points. If the most highest trained high quality people like US Fighter Pilots makes mistakes from time to time with millions of dollars of training into them. How are we lowly cops or soldiers going to expect ourselves to never make a mistake. That is why muzzle discipline, trigger finger discipline and the use of the safety is all important. Its redundancy in case we screw up.
    Pat

    An outstanding point made here. Most do break trigger discipline when under stress. Just another reason to have the weapon on safe.

    Not a good thing to have that finger on the trigger when the human instinct is to squeeze or tense up as a natural reaction to things that can hurt us.


    Last thing on the "brass check". yes of course if your in near total darkness you'd have to feel the round there to verify.

    I'll not get into how a brass check can be done by just feeling the extractor on many pistols.

    no visual check of the brass or pulling back of the slide needed. But that is waayyyyy beyond the level of most.
    Last edited by trunkmonkey; 02-13-09 at 10:27.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Metal View Post
    Weapon comes up, safety goes down.

    Weapon goes down, safety goes up.


    Correct, this method solves all the problems of safety on/safety off. You can store the gun however you want for your maximum safety, comfort, but if you manipulate the safety the same way, each and every time, as the gun comes up or down, you will have a nondiagnostic safety actuating system that is independant of how anybody has stored the weapon.

  5. #75
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    The weapons in our armory are stored with the hammer released and on fire.
    Last edited by cpekz; 02-13-09 at 16:12.

  6. #76
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    i suspect the reason armories do it that way is because after a function check the hammer is down after the last "metallic click".

    it has nothing to do with "resting" the springs.
    Last edited by Parabellum9x19mm; 02-13-09 at 23:04.
    TUEBOR

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    The problem is most shooters even the best trained break trigger finger discipline under stress. Jeff Hall a NRA LEO instructor conducted a study while he was hosting several NRA LEO trainings. During that study he found that among even the best leo's and military shooters over 95% of them put there finger on the trigger at some point in the training when they should not have. I have taken several active shooter classes from him he makes some good points. If the most highest trained high quality people like US Fighter Pilots makes mistakes from time to time with millions of dollars of training into them. How are we lowly cops or soldiers going to expect ourselves to never make a mistake. That is why muzzle discipline, trigger finger discipline and the use of the safety is all important. Its redundancy in case we screw up.
    Pat
    I took an NRA rifle class in which Jeff was one of the instructors. I really enjoyed it and learned a heck of a lot. He makes a lot of good points of weapon on target safety off. Weapon off target safety on. I flip it as it comes up and goes down.

    Dan Jones

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Metal View Post
    Weapon comes up, safety goes down.

    Weapon goes down, safety goes up or I should say goes up after I follow-thru just before I scan the area and bring it to low ready or holster if it is a manual safety equipped handgun.
    I can't believe I missed this one.

    I couldn't disagree with this more. I was discussing this with a few well instructed fellow shooters. (not this exactly, but...)

    I was stunned to see that in the shooting portion of BUDS training the instructors MADE the students click the safety on before moving to the next shooting position. In my opinion this is overkill, and a dangerous habit to get into for someone who really fights with his carbean.

    In my experience (and what I practice), Safety is on when you let it hang. I know if you filmed me in class or out shooting you could catch me flicking the safety on periodically. But only flicking it to fire when you're coming up on target is not my thing.
    Last edited by markm; 02-16-09 at 09:05.

  9. #79
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    I've seen both methods used.

    I've always been taught to go off safe to engage, and go back on safe when the threat is neutralized. It is natural to me with both M16FOW and 1911 to do that.
    Kevin S. Boland
    Manager, Federal Sales
    FN America, LLC
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  10. #80
    ToddG Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    I've seen both methods used.

    I've always been taught to go off safe to engage, and go back on safe when the threat is neutralized. It is natural to me with both M16FOW and 1911 to do that.
    Ditto what I've always done (and gently advocated) with a DA gun viz-a-vis decocking. When the gun is dismounted (from arms extended with a handgun) the safety/decocker gets hit.

    With a frame mounted safety (a la 1911), this should be no problem because a proper firing grip makes it impossible to have the safety engaged. If you've ever pulled the trigger on your 1911 and it didn't go off because your safety was on, you've got a bad grip technique.

    With a DA/SA gun, it shouldn't be a problem if you've properly trained to fire the DA shot quickly and accurately. The problem is that so many instructors these days are 1911/Glock shooters that they've forgot (or never been trained) how to use a DA/SA gun well and/or to teach others how to do it.

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