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Thread: Storing Rifle With Hammer Cocked (empty chamber) & Safety On

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by trunkmonkey View Post
    I agree with everything you said, except using the left right load system.
    A brass check is much faster.

    I only do that type of check on an MP5, where pulling the charging handle back to confirm the presence of a round in the chamber is impossible (or next to impossible) without ejecting the round.
    Forgive my ignorance but by a brass check do you mean a press check where the bolt is partially retracted and the round is seen and felt or is there another check I am not familiar with. I was trained on press checks and I still do them. But my latest round of training was geared towards left right load. They said that as the weapon becomes fouled a press check could leave the bolt out of battery. I normally gently nudge the forward assist to make sure its in battery. If you have another take or I am missing something please bring me up to speed. Take care.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Could be. When I first started getting instruction I was on the 1911, and the instruction was really geared towards modern pistols. So we were essentially left to manipulate the safety at our discresion.

    My problem was that I never developed a consistent approach to manipulation of the safety. There's instructors who have you engage the safety when moving to another position, etc. My problem wasn't with hitting the safety on the draw, it was with breaks in the firing. It wasn't a chronic problem. Just an occasional "damn it"
    I understand what you are saying. I think it would be good to go to a school or a training geared specifically towards the gun you are using if possible. Such as a 1911 transition course. This is no slam on you. Take care.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  3. #63
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    Weapon comes up, safety goes down.

    Weapon goes down, safety goes up or I should say goes up after I follow-thru just before I scan the area and bring it to low ready or holster if it is a manual safety equipped handgun.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Forgive my ignorance but by a brass check do you mean a press check where the bolt is partially retracted and the round is seen and felt or is there another check I am not familiar with. I was trained on press checks and I still do them. But my latest round of training was geared towards left right load. They said that as the weapon becomes fouled a press check could leave the bolt out of battery. I normally gently nudge the forward assist to make sure its in battery. If you have another take or I am missing something please bring me up to speed. Take care.
    Pat
    Yes I do mean a press check, same thing, different terminology. No need to feel the round though, just need to see it.

    If your doing that with a fouled AR yes sometimes the bolt fails to go fully forward since your only slightly pulling the bolt back.

    A slight nudge on the forward assist cures that.

    This type of check also works quickly with the AK47, even while it is on safe the bolt can come to the rear far enough to see brass in the chamber.
    Last edited by trunkmonkey; 02-12-09 at 23:00.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by trunkmonkey View Post
    Yes I do mean a press check, same thing, different terminology. No need to feel the round though, just need to see it.

    If your doing that with a fouled AR yes sometimes the bolt fails to go fully forward since your only slightly pulling the bolt back.

    A slight nudge on the forward assist cures that.

    This type of check also works quickly with the AK47, even while it is on safe the bolt can come to the rear far enough to see brass in the chamber.
    I was always taught that feeling the round is more important when you are verifying it is loaded. Because this usually happens in the field in low light under high stress. However when you are verifying its empty you want to see it and seeing it becomes more important.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Metal View Post
    Weapon comes up, safety goes down.

    Weapon goes down, safety goes up or I should say goes up after I follow-thru just before I scan the area and bring it to low ready or holster if it is a manual safety equipped handgun.
    That is exactly how I have been taught.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  7. #67
    ToddG Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    My problem was that I never developed a consistent approach to manipulation of the safety. There's instructors who have you engage the safety when moving to another position, etc. My problem wasn't with hitting the safety on the draw, it was with breaks in the firing. It wasn't a chronic problem. Just an occasional "damn it"
    My advice, fwiw, is to think about the different approaches you've been taught, adopt one as your own, and practice it. Personally, I'm a fan of putting the gun in safe condition (which, for a DA/SA gun, means decocking it) whenever I dismount the gun. So if I move from point A to point B, I'm decocking/safing the gun. But plenty of folks take the position that it's unnecessary and they only safe/decock when the "fight" is over.

    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I suppose that makes sense. I mean... there is the posibility that a popped primer or some crap is blocking the selector's movement. That isn't unheard of.
    Again, I've got far too little experience with the AR to say. I've always used the approach outlined above (safety is only off during actual shooting) so it's not something I've had to run up against. IG, F2S, and a lot of the other guys in this thread know way, way more about what is and isn't possible with an AR/M4 than I do.

  8. #68
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    If we kept our finger out of the trigger guard this thread could have stopped 65 posts ago...

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    If we kept our finger out of the trigger guard this thread could have stopped 65 posts ago...
    The problem is most shooters even the best trained break trigger finger discipline under stress. Jeff Hall a NRA LEO instructor conducted a study while he was hosting several NRA LEO trainings. During that study he found that among even the best leo's and military shooters over 95% of them put there finger on the trigger at some point in the training when they should not have. I have taken several active shooter classes from him he makes some good points. If the most highest trained high quality people like US Fighter Pilots makes mistakes from time to time with millions of dollars of training into them. How are we lowly cops or soldiers going to expect ourselves to never make a mistake. That is why muzzle discipline, trigger finger discipline and the use of the safety is all important. Its redundancy in case we screw up.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  10. #70
    ToddG Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    If we kept our finger out of the trigger guard this thread could have stopped 65 posts ago...
    Absolutely right. As soon as we can figure out a way to make sure every person performs every action under every condition in every environment when faced with every possible kind of stress without making any mistakes, things will be much, much easier.

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