NEW PURCHASING RULES from POF-USA are BULL SH*T

[K9222]

I'm freaking pissed. I dont know about anyone else but my P308 was ordered in August of 08 and was suppose to be here 2nd week of January. I called 2nd week of January they said 2 or 3 more months. Now they are making new orders and EXISTING orders have to have a 50% down payment and if I understand correctly oldest orders will be shipped first but they are still saying 14 more weeks. Thats BULL! and I'am extrememly dissappointed in this company. I understand thay have a huge increase in demand but to ask patient customers for more money down and then make them wait even longer. I've already been waitng for 7months. I will never purchase from them again and I may even cancel my order. I encourage anyone who plans on ordering from them to take your business else where because their customer service (Chris) acts like he could care less if you get your rifle or not. I know the guns may be made in america but I know this service is not american. People sure do business diffrent these days. Correct me if I'm wrong cause I may have misunderstood what the new rules were and if I'm wrong I apologize but this is getting ridiculous.

[Dave L.]

If you are not pleased with the wait times, why wait? I don't know if it's fair to tell everyone else to take their business else where based on your assessment. However, I hear mostly complaints about their product quality and less of their customer service.

FWIW, I would give this Chris guy (who I don't know) a pass; every AR manufacturer has people calling them all day long wanting their weapon to ship first.

just my $.02

[Littlelebowski]

Have you been candid with them? Maybe you need to go up the chain of command. I understand your frustration but I sure would hate to see such an innovative American company go down. Try politely going up the chain of command over the phone.

[K9222]

I wish I could go up chain of command, and I've tried but it dosen't get you anywhere. Heres another opinion : [Information added 02/18/2009 2:24:28 AM]
!!! THIS IS THE WAY POF IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF YOU !!! FROM AR15.COM !!! Tell me what you think of this: I just received a call from Felix from AVGUNS.COM and he told me to visit POF's website (www.pof-usa.com). I cannot believe that POF is now REQUIRING old and new customers to give them a 50% deposit. If you have a rifle on order with POF and didn't give them any money but received an expected ship date, you can forget it. You have to call them and give them 50% upfront in order to "secure" your purchase. So I guess POF expects to receive a large influx of cash to be able to purchase these facilities in order to reduce the backorder. Does the 50% deposit on our guns come with stocks in POF or any profit sharing since the customers are the ones financing the production? Felix from AVGUNS.COM has over $3.5 million dollars in backorders with POF right now. Does POF expect him to wire $1.75 million to guarantee his orders that date back almost 2 years? He just shared his disbelief with me a few moments ago and I am sharing some of his thoughts. He has been a loyal dealer for almost 5 years and this is how POF is repaying him and all the other dealers out there. The first paragraph at POF-USA.com pretty much sums it up. Frank DeSomma clearly states that the reason POF is going to charge 50% upfront is to purchase more raw materials and tooling (investment) and because the open market is yielding large profits for resellers, which he does not profit from and would like to (GREED). With the tremendous increase in sales, why would anybody want to charge their customers upfront for something they cannot guarantee? POF has a huge backlog of orders and they need more money? Should POF care what their rifles are selling for in the open market? I think they should be very happy that they are (and maybe soon to be were) in demand and bringing in top dollar to the fortunate people that can get one. POF should worry when their rifles are not selling. If everything them manufacture is sold before it ships now, what is the problem? Re-invest your profits and grow. It is a very good problem to have when you have backorders that are 2 years old. I don't see Ferrari ramping up production because all their cars are sold before they are build. Furthermore, I don't see any other manufacturer of any product worried that their product is being re-sold in the open market for higher margins. POF is receiving what they ask for their product and can't keep up with the demand. This move to charge 50% upfront is a sure way to get rid of that backorder problem. I think GREED is getting the better of Frank DeSomma. What about loyalty? Loyalty to the dealers like AVGUNS.COM who have marketed and promoted POF products for years. Now POF wants to cut them and other dealers out of the picture. How about all the customers that have been waiting months for their P-308 only to find out that they need to come up with half to have a shot at possibly getting their hands on one? Sure, POF has the right to conduct business however they want but is it morally and ethically correct? We do not know how long we will have the opportunity to purchase our beloved firearms. We do not know what tomorrow will bring. Can you trust one company with your money in the hopes of one day in the future receiving what you ordered? Too many factors can come into play like parts availability. POF doesn't manufacture every single part in their rifles. If some of the components are not available or go to another manufacturer for more money, you will not receive your rifle until those parts are sourced. What is POF's financial stability? Maybe before you give POF 50% upfront for a rifle, they should give you a copy of their financials, 3 months bank statements and a personal guarantee that your money is secure. I look forward to hearing from all of you. If you think it is good business or not, share your thoughts and let us know how soon you receive your order. If you are outraged, share your thougts and let us know what you are going to buy now instead of a POF.

[Littlelebowski]

Please...

Be interestig to see how this plays out,

[czydj]

Please...

Be interestig to see how this plays out,

and he forgot to use:


[rant]blah blah blah[/rant]

[rubberneck]

POF has a huge backlog of orders and they need more money?

I suppose you have never heard of a little thing called cash flow. With the demise of the credit markets it is very difficult for a company like POF to access capital no matter how large the backlog is or how good their credit rating is. Raw materials need to be purchased, tools need to be replaced and employees need to be paid before the gun is shipped to the end user.

If it were me I would gladly pay the 50% and I'll tell you why. You are going to have to pay for the gun any way. It wouldn't matter to me if it were 50% now and 50% on delivery or 100% on delivery. In the end it has to be paid, in full, before you get your hands on it. I know it seems unfair to ask existing orders to fork over half the price of the gun just to keep your place in line but we are living in unfair times. When they took your order the capital markets were functioning reasonably well, they aren't now. It sucks but it is what it is. If the 50% required is needed to actually produce the product and get it shipped than they have to do what they need to do to keep their business running. I know I have had to adjust my business model in this environment. I can cry about how unfair it is as I go out of business or I can suck it up and live to fight another day.

If you haven't noticed good companies are going down left and right in this economy. I am not talking about inept mismanaged companies, but good solid companies with demand for their product but don't have the cash flow to fill existing orders. Why should POF be any different?

[usmc51]

I wish someone had saved me the trouble of dealing with these people at POF before I bothered wasting my time with them.

My post on them from another forum referencing a group of us looking to buy .308 ARs:

We asked about military or bulk discounts, they said they offer a discount to all "military/LE/contractors." We went forward with plans to place a sizable order, then got back in touch to lock in the specifics and they said we were welcome to pay their retail cost and negotiate a deal with our local gun shops who were to place the order to allow the local shop the option to cut their commission to provide us the discount. I brought up that I thought POF's, "sure, we offer a discount to all..." was misleading when they (POF) offer no discount to the individual or the dealer purchasing their products, but claim to offer a discount to military, law enforcement, etc. I would have no issues if they said, "we do not offer a discount, our products are already priced at the price we are willing to sell them for." But the way they did go about it was low class, and as a result, I choose to never do business with them, again. Other companies, such as Fulton Armory, were straight shooters with us from the beginning.

This was 5-9 rifles for the same number of individuals, just ordered together, at the same time, in the same configuration. I just think there is a big difference between claiming to offer a discount to all "military/LE/contractor," and telling that same person when it's time to order that the discount is to be arranged through your local dealer out of their small profit. POF offers no discount, they only offer to suggest you contact your local dealer, though they want to claim to offer a discount to all those serving their country. Like I said, it's just poor business practice. I won't do business with them as a result, but it is up to each individual to decide for him/herself.

[k_cheerangie]

I know we are wading through tough times and all, but I do not think a company has to let it's customer service falter, whether they are selling guns or freaking rubber duckies.

"Give the guy a pass" for what.

If the guy gets paid to sit his ass in a chair and attend politly and curtiously to customers like I said I could care less if they make guns or tampons.

I remeber a couple months ago I had a problem with an order from DSA and the guy was horrible on the phone to me, he acted like he did not have the time of day for me.

That is why Circuit City went under because their customer service rating was horrbile and people found a comparable place to shop.

That's my $.02

[Littlelebowski]

I sent a note to POFUSA, asking them if they'd like to refute the charges here. No response yet.