Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 104

Thread: $1200 Max Home Protection

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    371
    Feedback Score
    16 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by panzerr View Post
    As you so eloquently pointed out, I'm completely uneducated. You win this pissing match. I'm not going to argue my points with someone that "has been to a class."
    So I guess all our knowledge we gained from hours, on hours of real world training don't mean anything to a know-it-all uneducated fool. Yes I called you a fool. You are very foolish is your quest to defend your home and family, and you are doing them a great injustice by your hard-headiness.

    You fail to realize that most of your home invaders are hoped up on some type of CNS stimulant. These same type of people I have fought hand to hand on the street. I have also see these type of people take round after round of pistol ammo and still be fighting. I have seen a guy rip freaking taser leads out of himself. I wish you could be with me when we deal with these people, so you could see what we are all trying to tell you. bird shot will do nothing but piss him off, and in the time it takes you to aim for his "eyes", he will be right on top of you.

    There is tons of knowledge here that you could learn from if you would just shudup and read it. Stop thinking you know it all, and we just know what we "learned in a class" I would like to know what your training level is, and if you have any real world experience in this matter. That is since the rest of us are wrong and your right
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Posts
    1,104
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    First of all, if what you are fighting for is important enough (or you're high enough), blinding is not going to end the fight. If my little girl were still in danger, I would bit and claw if need be, whether I could see or not. Birdshot is insufficient to penetrate more than a couple layers of sheet rock, it certainly will not penetrate 12" of flesh and bone - the depth needed to reach vital organs and/or the CNS... Which is what is needed to stop a determined/doped up assailant. I will not gamble the lives of my child or pregnant wife because I'm worried about liability.

    On top of that, there are some really smart people on this forum that know a lot more about ballastics than you or I... The smart thing to do would be to shut your pie hole, be humble enough to know what you don't know, and listen.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    934
    Feedback Score
    59 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by SwatDawg15 View Post
    Yes I called you a fool.
    Go ahead, call me a fool. You are safe behind your computer screen. You don't know a damn thing about me so your berating is invalid. Not to mention that you are ignoring my main point -that it is easier to maintain control on an pistol rather than an AR. And I for one would rather keep control of my weapon system to bring to bear on a perp rather than have him get me all tangle****ed with it.

    Some of you a proving a point I made earlier. That is, if you don't agree with someone who went to a 'class' or someone that spends so much time posting here they've amassed a huge post count your opinion is to be tossed aside because no moderator will go against them, so it's okay to flame.
    a former meatpuppet.

    http://sixty-six.org

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    106
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by larry0071 View Post
    Buy a big black dog and a pallet of dog food! That is also a great deterent to bad guys coming into the house! I have 80 lbs of slobber that sleeps inside the front door.
    Have you seen the price of dog food lately? You would think there was pending legislation on a venison kibble ban. The food we feed has had 2 significant price hikes in the past 6 months totaling about 35%. Soon 5.56 will be cheaper.
    Last edited by Dedpoet; 03-22-09 at 13:28.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Stafford, Virginia
    Posts
    1,169
    Feedback Score
    0
    Ya know, for as much as we collectively have a love fest about M4Carbine.net over all the other forums.......

    I see someone post here about having $1200.00 USD to purchase one and most of the thread turns into a tactical chest pounding I love myself, been there done that.

    Nothing to do with the guy wanting to get an AR.

    So, do we help him or do we continue to talk about t-shirts?

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Posts
    1,104
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    I'll help him out... I'm putting together an AR from a completed LMT or BCM upper, an LMT or BCM BCG, and then grabbing a lower and LPK... I'm looking at around $900 and lots of patiently waiting (for the parts to be in stock).

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    241
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by panzerr View Post
    Go ahead, call me a fool. You are safe behind your computer screen. You don't know a damn thing about me so your berating is invalid. Not to mention that you are ignoring my main point -that it is easier to maintain control on an pistol rather than an AR. And I for one would rather keep control of my weapon system to bring to bear on a perp rather than have him get me all tangle****ed with it.

    Some of you a proving a point I made earlier. That is, if you don't agree with someone who went to a 'class' or someone that spends so much time posting here they've amassed a huge post count your opinion is to be tossed aside because no moderator will go against them, so it's okay to flame.
    Nobody's 'flaming' you over your post-count. You are not engaged in a disagreement over things subjective, or that are a matter of opinion. You are wrong. Grant and those agreeing with him are right. It has nothing to do with your M4C popularity index or post-count.

    Now if you want to backpeddle to the assertion that it's easier to maintain control of a pistol than an AR - well,OK, that is arguable. The rest of your points have been horseshit.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA/OH
    Posts
    29,630
    Feedback Score
    33 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuckatelli View Post
    Attempting to get this back on track.......

    Do you have links to places where these parts can be purchased?
    We sell them all and the majority of the items are instock, but the BCM and LMT items are VERY to get and you basically just need to get your name in with several dealers.




    C4

  9. #59
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA/OH
    Posts
    29,630
    Feedback Score
    33 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by panzerr View Post
    As I've seen in the past, I've sure there are plenty of people here that would LOVE to jump on someone that has an opinion that differs from you or a few other prominent posters, overlooking the validity of some points just to get a few jabs in.
    I am not looking to get a "few jabs in." I am looking to make sure that people are not mis-informed. You see, there is so much BAD info about weapons, gear and training out there that many have dubbed the internet as the "errornet."

    As per the original conversation, I don't buy into the AR being the best home defense platform. It has more to do with weapon retention while maneuvering inside confined spaces than with ballistics.
    The AR might not be the best HD weapon for you or someone else. People often times ask me what IS the best option and I ask them which gun do they shoot the most with. So if it is a SG, then I tell them to go with that. If it is a pistol, then that is their best choice.
    The weapon that they practice the MOST with is actually the best one for the job IMHO as they know it the best. Too many times people pick a gun that they have very little trigger time on (like a shotgun).
    Searching your home is really a bad idea all the way around (especially alone). You simply do NOT have the advantage. I fully understand that you sometimes HAVE to do it, but it is still the last resort IMHO.
    Most people do not have the SLIGHTEST clue about how to clear a house (properly). They have even LESS of a clue on how to do it in the dark (which it is generally going to be).


    A pistol is much easier to keep readily accessible in your bedroom. I have a gunvault on my nightstand which keeps my pistol safe from kids and in a convenient place for me to get to it in the night if I were to need it.
    Depends on how you have things setup. I understand that you can put a pistol on the night stand. After you have grabbed the pistol, you walk to the closet and put the long gun out (two is one and one is none).

    You can keep the AR unloaded in the closet and put the mag in the gunvault along with your pistol. If all your ammo (in the home) is secure, then the AR is nothing more than a paper weight to little kids.

    If I heard some screams coming from a room in my house and the sounds of a scuffle, I wouldn't go for your 'safe room' as you learned in your class.
    Actually you are mistaken as too what I have learned. The instructors have NEVER taught me to go to my "safe room." They have taught me how to fight room to room in the dark of night. The safe room concept is simply common sense and of course if you have to go out of that room, you want to have the advantage.

    I think your problem might be that you are reading too much into what I am saying (like thinking that because I have an AR, I am going to chase someone down the street). You would be much better off not putting words in my mouth.


    I would keep my pistol close to my side, muzzle forward and my reaction hand at the ready to fend off someone that tried to surprise and grapple me while I maneuvered through the house. With my reaction hand ready to block and a pistol in my firing hand, I could still execute blocks and strikes with the pistol if need be.
    So you have one hand on the pistol and one hand off. Uhm, ok. I think you are much better off in position one or a high ready if you are looking for a fight. Can you tell me which instructor teaches you to clear a home with only one hand on the weapon? I just want to know so that I never accidentially take one of their classes.

    The worst thing that could happen in a scenario like this is loosing control of my firearm (being that I would be alone) and it would be more difficult to keep positive control of an AR than a pistol as both hands would be tied up with the weapon, not to mention the size of the AR makes it a larger target for an assailant.
    I thought you only had one hand on the pistol? Now I am confused??


    Your ballistics gelatin photos are neat, don't get me wrong, but walls are not made of ballistics gelatin.
    The pics are not mine (sorry). They are from the ballistics forum right on M4C (who knew)! Your are right about gelatin not being walls. What do you think happens when the .223 bullet makes contact with something harder than gelatin? How many more people would you like to post on here (that do this type of stuff for a living) to tell you that your concepts are incorrect (or do you just not read their replies)???

    They are build of sheetrock, screws, nails, studs, plywood, tyvek, insulation, electrical wires and some sort of siding. I've seen many round nose 45 ACP pistol rounds fired at 800 fps get lodged in 3.5 inches of wood. If you were to drop the velocity to 600 fps (or as low as it will go while still cycling the action) and use non jacketed round you would seriously reduce the possibility of over-penetration. A 5.56 mm round would zip through a stud wall, and while it may fragment, those fragments are still traveling upwards of 1000 fps or more. That can still kill. I would need to see a real test setup with people shooting through stud walls before I would be convinced that a rifle round is indeed safer than a pistol round firing through a wall. And even then I would still use a pistol for home defense -again because if you loose control of that weapon you and your family are dead and it is easier to maintain positive control of a pistol.
    Hmm round nose ball ammo and unjacketed ball ammo. Why don't SWAT teams (which are overly concerned about killing innocent people) use that type of ammo?? Do you know something that they do not?

    Before someone else chimes in with another brilliant jab at birdshot think of this: can you continue a fight without eyes? My karate instructor of several years reiterates this point from time to time -if you are ever assailed by a larger opponent, take out his eyes. One cannot fight without eyes. If you use birdshot and fire high center mass, you are going to **** someone up -possibly blinding them. That WILL stop them.
    Birdshot, right. I think I will pass on this idea (again).



    C4

  10. #60
    ToddG Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by panzerr View Post
    Some of you a proving a point I made earlier. That is, if you don't agree with someone who went to a 'class' or someone that spends so much time posting here they've amassed a huge post count your opinion is to be tossed aside because no moderator will go against them, so it's okay to flame.
    I'm not sure if you're trolling or being serious, but giving the benefit of the doubt I'll assume the latter.

    You seem disdainful of people who have been to a 'class' as you put it. Would you agree that people with training and direct experience usually have more valid information than those without?

    You're making a number of assumptions about terminal ballistics. Those assumptions are simply wrong. It doesn't make you a fool just because you reached the wrong conclusion. After all, for decades the conventional wisdom was identical to your assumption, that 5.56/.223 was more penetrative against typical indoor building materials than handgun projectiles.

    However, that assumption has been disproven. Not theoretically, but in repeated scientific testing. Many of the people who are tying to impress that point upon you have seen such tests first hand, trained with people who've conducted such tests personally, etc.

    Whether or not the AR/M4/5.56mm-carbine is the best choice for home defense, the ballistic argument has been dead for more than a decade.

Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •