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Thread: Multi uppers/one lower

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrowne1 View Post
    You might want to review these ATF Tech Branch letters before being so certain about that:

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...f_letter90.txt

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...f_letter52.txt
    Thanks for the information.
    I defer to your letters vs. my telephone conversation to NFA in 2006 and stand corrected.
    Regards.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post

    That refers to having a registered auto AR and semi ARs, but I think it would apply to a SBR and standard ARs? I wish they would start with "Yes" or "No" and then a rationale, they really don't answer questions, they just cite something. It sure looks that if you have an SBR rifle, a standard AR15, and an extra <16inch upper, you have two SBR rifles in their eyes?
    It sure looks that way to me, but I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me that I'm wrong because lots of people do it, their buddy who is an ATF agent said it was OK, etc.
    Last edited by dbrowne1; 05-16-09 at 14:05.

  3. #13
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    I'd personally just register it for the shortest barrel you'll run on it. Then run anything else you want.

    Unless you're permanently changing the barrel length or caliber I wouldn't bother bugging the feds about it.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    It sure looks that if you have an SBR rifle, a standard AR15, and an extra <16inch upper, you have two SBR rifles in their eyes?
    That wouldn't even pass the common sense test. Why would a guy legally build one SBR and risk prosecution for doing an SBR illegally? Assuming the guy is sane, he wouldn't.

    Take me for example. I have two SBRs and four non sbrs. Why would I throw an extra upper on a Title 1 weapon when I could just pop it on a legal lower? So common sense would dictate that an extra upper would only be used on a registered lower.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    That wouldn't even pass the common sense test. Why would a guy legally build one SBR and risk prosecution for doing an SBR illegally? Assuming the guy is sane, he wouldn't.

    Take me for example. I have two SBRs and four non sbrs. Why would I throw an extra upper on a Title 1 weapon when I could just pop it on a legal lower? So common sense would dictate that an extra upper would only be used on a registered lower.
    Common sense and the ATF / gov.

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    That wouldn't even pass the common sense test. Why would a guy legally build one SBR and risk prosecution for doing an SBR illegally? Assuming the guy is sane, he wouldn't.

    Take me for example. I have two SBRs and four non sbrs. Why would I throw an extra upper on a Title 1 weapon when I could just pop it on a legal lower? So common sense would dictate that an extra upper would only be used on a registered lower.
    it would help to understand ATFs interpretations if we understood the reasoning behind the NFA. i can't wrap my ****in mind around it, personally.

    i GUESS the fear is that people will create arsenals of SBRs and overthrow the government. with SBRs.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by eguns-com View Post
    Common sense and the ATF / gov.

    Like oil and water
    Point taken! I remember watching a show about how an agent infiltrated the Monguls biker gang. He spent months and months earning a full patch in the gang and finally came across one machine pistol at a well to do member of the gang who lived in Scottsdale, AZ.

    Of course the gang was into the usual drugs and fighting and shit. But I though what a ****ing waste of resources. They hit the gang and most of the members are already walking free now. It just seemed like so much effort for such little result.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    it would help to understand ATFs interpretations if we understood the reasoning behind the NFA. i can't wrap my ****in mind around it, personally.

    i GUESS the fear is that people will create arsenals of SBRs and overthrow the government. with SBRs.
    The NFA was enacted in 1934 to create a hurdle and an easy pinch (due to non-compliance) for gangsters/bootleggers who were using machineguns, sawed-off shotguns, etc. with some regularity.

    The rationale behind having extra short uppers, extra machinegun parts sufficient to make another machinegun, etc. is that you are effectively and illegally evading the tax and registration by having all the parts to make another one.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    That wouldn't even pass the common sense test. Why would a guy legally build one SBR and risk prosecution for doing an SBR illegally? Assuming the guy is sane, he wouldn't.

    Take me for example. I have two SBRs and four non sbrs. Why would I throw an extra upper on a Title 1 weapon when I could just pop it on a legal lower? So common sense would dictate that an extra upper would only be used on a registered lower.
    I don't disagree, but it seems to pass the "Black and White" test of what is written. It sure seems from the text I copied over that you can't own SBRs and non-SBR, which does seem wrong.

    I can only assume that in the text:

    4. Can you have several short barrel uppers (less than 16 inches)
    for the registered AR and still own semi-auto AR's?

    The definition of a firearm in section 5845 of the NFA includes a
    rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
    An individual possessing more than one short (less than 16 inches)
    barreled upper receiver for a registered AR15 machinegun along with
    one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles would have under their
    possession of control an unregistered short barreled rifle, a
    violation of the NFA.


    They meant to say that once you have and SBR lower, that is the only lower that can have <16in uppers on it. Dang, that is not clear. I assume he means that if you put the short uppers on the standard lowers, you are in violation. I bet when you get this guy in court he gives direct yes and no answers

    I feel like you have to Seasame Street the questions.

    If Grover has a registered SBR and a standard 18inch AR15 and The Cookie Monster gives him a 12 inch upper that he only puts on the SBR, how many SBRs does Grover have?

    The NFA is the only tax that I'm glad is not indexed to inflation.
    Last edited by FromMyColdDeadHand; 05-16-09 at 21:03.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    I don't disagree, but it seems to pass the "Black and White" test of what is written. It sure seems from the text I copied over that you can't own SBRs and non-SBR, which does seem wrong.
    No, it basically says you can only have one short upper per NFA lower if you also have regular title I ARs.

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