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Thread: Colt Armorers Course

  1. #41
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    If Ken clears you, I highly doubt that the agency won't. JM2CW.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanB View Post
    The agency also has to approve. I figured out I'm probably best off having my friend contact Ken and handle it from that direction, he will know who would let me in.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  2. #42
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    On the same note, I have seen plenty of LE and MIL personnel who also shouldn't have been in the class because they were slower than molasses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I've been in a few armorer courses where they allowed non-LE/ non-MIL in, and most of them have been disasters. Glock is a great example of this, they let in just about anyone. Its bad enough that I've got to listen to people on the street with their complaints, but the last thing I want to do is listen to it when I'm stuck next to some guy who doesn't shower and wants to talk over the instructor telling about all the times he almost drew down on someone.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robb Jensen View Post
    IMHO Glock should do away with the 1 day basic Glock Armorers course it's next to useless. The 2 day Advanced Armorers class is 100 times better. In my class this summer at Smyrna we had 14 students (3 civilians, 1 of which was me). The only guys struggling were the LE guys especially on the 2nd day when every student had to look over 18 different Glocks with various problems that you had to identify what was wrong and describe the fix. Some guns had 1 problem, some had up to 5 problems.
    I agree, but the AC serves a purpose. It's for the lowest common denominator LEO who may or may not be a gun guy, or even want to be at the class. The AC is designed and intended to give that LCD the tools to ID a defective gun and correct the most basic and common problems, or to determine it needs to go back to GI.

    As you well know, trying to teach that LCD differential diagnostics and maintenance would be a week-long chore in many cases.

    I've recerted many times over the years. I like to sit in the back and watch people's eyes glaze over when the instructor talks about 15/5 and 15/0 extractors, 4340 vs. 1882 ejectors, checking engagement, etc. Watching the ham-fisted try to field strip the things can be amusing itself.

    One of the problems with the AC over the years is the variability in instructors and content. Some will do an excellent job and leave the student with many times their money's worth. Certain others will sit and watch their ebay auctions, talk about their boats, and watch the clock. Glock has had to refund quite a bit of tuition for a couple of their IW/AC instructors following agency complaints about quality of instruction.
    Last edited by ST911; 01-02-11 at 16:17.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    I agree, but the AC serves a purpose. It's for the lowest common denominator LEO who may or may not be a gun guy, or even want to be at the class. The AC is designed and intended to give that LCD the tools to ID a defective gun and correct the most basic and common problems, or to determine it needs to go back to GI.

    As you well know, trying to teach that LCD differential diagnostics and maintenance would be a week-long chore in many cases.

    I've recerted many times over the years. I like to sit in the back and watch people's eyes glaze over when the instructor talks about 15/5 and 15/0 extractors, 4340 vs. 1882 ejectors, checking engagement, etc. Watching the ham-fisted try to field strip the things can be amusing itself.

    One of the problems with the AC over the years is the variability in instructors and content. Some will do an excellent job and leave the student with many times their money's worth. Certain others will sit and watch their ebay auctions, talk about their boats, and watch the clock. Glock has had to refund quite a bit of tuition for a couple of their IW/AC instructors following agency complaints about quality of instruction.
    No doubt. The first Glock instructor I had for the AC course in 2005 talked about his shooting career for about 2.5hrs. Luckily I already knew how to detail strip the gun anyway.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanB View Post
    The agency also has to approve. I figured out I'm probably best off having my friend contact Ken and handle it from that direction, he will know who would let me in.
    FWIW, when I was in one of Ken's classes at Corona P.D. there were civillians in attendance.

    They have another one coming up the week of 01/24/11...

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by E53001 View Post
    Ive been searching the i-net for a while and this site but havent found any answers to my question which is, does ANYBODY know a M16/M4 Armorers Course available to civs ?? I'm what you would call a tinkerer and like to know my tools inside and out and how to fix/trouble shoot/replace parts, but every course ive found is only LE/Gov't/Military only, any info appreciated
    There are many courses available on the AR15/M16/M4 weapons system to include a few that I and my staff have been exposed to from Colt, Specialized Armament, S&W, and Bushmaster/Blackwater, all of which have something to offer and if the opportunity presents itself then you should take the course. My personal recommendation is to take as many armorer/armoring courses that you can get to, to include taking courses on the same weapons system and other weapon systems. My first armorer course that my agency sent me to was in 1988, of which exposed me to the internals of weapons and diagnosis of issues, it snowballed my interest from there. Each course and trainer has something to offer, you may find that a certain Instructor or course content may explain of show something a little different of which may help make sense better than another method. My approach is that each particular weapon system is a machine, you will see a lot of the same machining principles repeated in other weapon systems, and once you get exposed to a lot of them you will find that a lot of the same principles start to integrate of which makes diagnosis/trouble-shooting and wear problems become more prevalent to diagnose and repair/replace as necessary. I am fortunate that at my Law Enforcement Job I get exposed to lots of different weapons systems to take care of and diagnose issues, of which provides me my favorites to work on. I have a passion for working on and teaching on the AR15/M16/M4, M14/M1A, Law Enforcement Shotguns (Rem 870, Mossy 500/590, and Benelli M1 series, Glocks, 1911's, and Subguns (MP5, UMP, and SMG's). There are a few weapons systems that I am not a fan of working on, but when tasked I look at them as an opportunity and challenge.

    Most often when we teach a Restricted Enrollment it is due to the hosting venue, as some of these courses are in areas of Law Enforcement Agencies where OPSEC may be of concern (example: current warrant information may be posted on the walls etc), we do as many Open Enrollment courses as possible, and the content of the courses are the same. Things that we cover in our standard AR15/M16/M4 course of which we feel are a must is headspace and firing pin protrusion gauging, barrel replacement (everyone has the opportunity do this in class) as we find a lot of barrels are indexed incorrectly of which can be fixed during class plus people want to know how to add free float tubes in this day and age of so many being available. We also spend a lot of time going through the machining on parts like trigger components, this helps people have a basis for diagnosing issues of why a gun doesn't fire or why it may occasionally fire a runaway burst. The advanced version of this course we offer takes things to a whole different level of which people want to have their ducks in a row to attend this, as it is more gunsmithing based with lots of hands on fitting/machining, gauging, casting chambers, locking down and pinning gas blocks/front sight bases and free float tubes (especially ones that have not locking pins), and we spend time on letting people diagnose some not so common malfunctions due to out of spec stuff that is on the edge of actually working.

    Again we recommend taking as many armorer/armoring courses as possible, to include Specialized Armament, Dean Caputo's Diagnostics, as many factory courses as you can get into, and don't forget to check out some of the more reputable gunsmithing technical schools across the country, knowledge is a wonderful thing.
    Last edited by SLR15; 01-12-11 at 22:44.
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