Guns & Ammo: Tactical Guns & Gear!!

[SHIVAN]

The single point sling that was shown in Zak's article, where he demonstrated the muzzle in the ground, looks like it was ill adjusted.

When I kneel like that, my muzzle is above the ground by a bit.


Then again I run 10.5 and 11.5" carbines -- so maybe that's why -- but I don't think it is..

Further, isn't that what those neat little gun retention cuffs are for on the back of your gear?

[USMC03]

The single point sling that was shown in Zak's article, where he demonstrated the muzzle in the ground, looks like it was ill adjusted.

When I kneel like that, my muzzle is above the ground by a bit.


Then again I run 10.5 and 11.5" carbines -- so maybe that's why -- but I don't think it is..

Further, isn't that what those neat little gun retention cuffs are for on the back of your gear?

That was me in the photo and the sling was adjusted properly. I have had the same thing happen several times at work when picking up flash bangs, evidence, etc. off the deck and one of my hands has something in it and I'm trying to pick something up with the other hand.

When using a 2 point sling it is easy to move the rifle around to your back (even with a lot of gear on).

[MASP7]

Is this what you are referring too

Yeah, I think that's it.
I'll look again. My friend is going to bring the mag tomorrow, as I'm not going to buy it. I like the idea of the magazine, but I hope they publish a whole mag worth buying. I can't see buying it for one or two articles, even for the comic relief.

While we have given "Mr. Sapper" a well-deserved load of feces about this article, it in no way detracts from his service to our country.
But the bottom line is that if you put yourself up as a subject matter expert by writing an article and having it published in a national magazine, you should have your crap together.

Zak: I'm reading your sling article tomorrow.
If you wrote anything nice about three-point slings, it's go time.

[Dave L.]

If anyone reading this doesn't want to buy a copy- good, don't- but I would be happy to scan and email you any of the articles in the mag...even the really upsetting ones.
If you don't know, there are articles on: lights/mounting, LAV's AR advice, Windometers, "bug-out bags", gun cases, tactical knives, back packs, GPS, laser range finders/scopes, 2-way radios/solar power, suspension systems and body, eye-pro, desert ghillies, surefire sound supressor, binos, slings, hydration systems, boots, the "fighting FAL"...not in that order.
But like I said, if you want to know what all the fuss is about and want to know why G&A will let almost anyone write anything these days( no offense Zak or Larry) then PM me up I'll email an article or two.

Cheers,
Dave

P.S. each page will be a seperate file about 500kb or so if it matte's to any-o-you hacke's

[KevinB]

Jeff, when we go hands on or similar with a 1pt we usually roll it around -- pull on the sling with the left hand high up ont he right side of the sling and push the weapon around on the slign to the rear -- takes a second or two. Not saying I disagree with your findings -- just another option. Some of the US Marines I worked with used those "weapon cuff" things off their belts or vest to trap the weapon when it was in a 1pt, for certain activities.

[USMC03]

Kevin,


I prefer moving the gun around to the rear. Body size, body shape, the way you have your gear set up, etc, all come into play and have an effect on how different sling set ups work for different people.

But there are occasions in my line of work when there is no chance to move the sling to the rear. If I have to go hands on (guy wants to fight, have to take someone to the gound who is not obeying commands, take someone down and cuff them quickly, etc) there is no time to move the gun to the rear. And one more than one occasion I have had the buttstock kiss me on the chin and had the barrel buise the knees. Never had this problem with the 2 point, as the sling controls the carbine more when in the slung position.

I am right handed, thus when I move the gun around to the rear, I move it around to my left side. The problem that I always had with the single point sling is the weapon would never stay on my back left side, it would always shift and end up under my left arm pit.

Even when the gun stayed on my back, because a single point sling only attaches to one point on the gun. The gun would often rotate and move (ie. if I was bent over picking something up, with the gun on my back, sometimes the gun would rotate and the muzzle would be pointing to my left).

I used single point slings since 2002 and perfered it until I tried the Blue Force Gear Vickers (2 point) sling. I have now switched all my guns over to the Vickers and LaRue VTAC sling.

[Zak Smith]

There are a lot of details - as shown in the last 5 posts to this thread - that are just impossible to hit in a 2000-word article. There is always some amount of detail lost, and having to cover a field of options at least a little bit - so people know the general trade-offs - just makes it worse.

For example, I just finished a TRG vs. AWSM article on the 338's. If left to my own devices, it would have ended up about 5000 words, because my shooting partner and I have a lot of experience on the two rifles. But since the assignment is 2000 words, there is a lot of stuff that just can't be included.

That said, I try to always write from my direct experience, and if I need something more that what I know, I'll consult a "SME" such as USMC03 on slings and CQB.

But this isn't a defense of bad articles either...

[SHIVAN]

That was me in the photo and the sling was adjusted properly. I have had the same thing happen several times at work when picking up flash bangs, evidence, etc. off the deck and one of my hands has something in it and I'm trying to pick something up with the other hand.

When using a 2 point sling it is easy to move the rifle around to your back (even with a lot of gear on).

Fair enough. It doesn't happen to me. As I noted, it could be that I only run less than 12" guns. <<shrugs>>

You also have more experience going "hands-on" with people wanting to fight, while trying to stow a carbine....

However, my observation in comparing my kneeling and your kneeling are that my muzzle does not do that. Ever. If it did, I would have replaced my slings.

I like the 2pt due to some "fighting" issues I saw, where the weapon can be used to control you in grappling. I suppose the quick release on my unit might mitigate the risk, but not as quickly as the duck and slide out of a 2pt.

[Striker5]

This issue is my designated "potty reading" material. I told myself that I would read the Vicker's article last, but ended up reading it first. That sucked most of the blood out of the magazine.

Sapper:
Not to beat a dead horse, but he makes a comment how we don't need kevlar - plates are sufficient. He then goes on to say that the PB Interceptor is GTG. I guess he doesn't know it has Kevlar inserts. Maybe he was talking about some sort of supplemental vest? I felt sorry for him, especially in the digiflage photo.

Civil Affairs: One of my jobs in 2005 was escorting them periodically to the local haji town. The major that ran that outfit was a good guy and was about to tear his hair out from dealing with the shifty, good-for-nothing sheiks. Then we got a new, extremely aggressive CO, which made his job worse! He told me about his dealings w/ the local big shots and evidently they are shadier than their constituents.

Blackhawk gear: I have an extremely battered drop holster that I bought in 2002 and is still trucking. I bought a subload for my leg in 2005 and wore it until circumstances dictated the need of that cargo pocket and it went in my pack. I am not defending them as a company, but the two products I got (albeit easy not to screw up) have been serviceable and tough. I can't speak for the rest of their stuff. My criticism of them is that there advertising is really gay.

[KevinB]

Jeff -- Yeah I get to shoot those sorts, I can see how that could impact ones choices a "bit"