Talk to me about J-Frames

[decodeddiesel]

So my wife is in need of a CCW and I am looking for a good BUG. I have always loved the old S&W Model 36s and am fascinated by the modern j-frames S&W is offering. My wife and I saw a few different models today, a couple 442s, a 637, and a 638. Honestly I am a little overwhelmed by all of the choices.

I know we want CTC grips on the thing, and frankly I don't even know which model of those we want. I don't think I need (or want to pay for) a scandium frame .357. I just don't see ever firing .357 out of such a small gun, I think it will be limited to .38 +Ps tops. I like how the 442 is no snag, but I think my wife would like the ability to fire single action as well. Is the DA pull on any model better than another? We couldn't dry fire the weapons at the shop we were at "for safety reasons" so I really didn't get to feel the triggers of the various weapons.

The only j-frames I have ever fired is an old 36 which had a very smooth and sweet trigger in DA and a crisp SA trigger. It was a really old gun though and probably not indicative of a modern offering.

So what are everyone's thoughts?

[NoBody]

Deleted.

[Blinking Dog]

S&W 638 (Body Guard) model is your choice then.

What about the 642 w/CT laser grips. I have been considering that one. A friend carriers a 642 w/o CT (althought I think wishes he had them) and thinks very highly of it. Your thoughts?

[VooDoo6Actual]

easy day.

I use them as BUGs and have for years.

I like and own a 649 and 640.

The tactics evovle as the mission evolves/changes...

I like S&W "6" series because they are "SS" and because I carry them close they are prone to precipitation from proximity to the body. Maintainence is assuredly easier.

Secondly decide if you want DA or SA/DA.

I do like the ability to cock hammer at times.

You can get a .357 and easily and accurately shoot .38 from it as a consideration.
If the .357 has too much "wallup" for the lady then tame it down w/ .38.


Both are excellent platforms
HTH YMMV...

[John_Wayne777]

I know we want CTC grips on the thing, and frankly I don't even know which model of those we want.

The LG-405 is the most compact and has some nice cushioning built right into the grip to help with recoil. They are the best of the CT offerings, IMO.

The LG-305 makes the weapon more comfortable to shoot (larger grips generally help the shootability of the J frame considerably) but also makes it more difficult to conceal.

I use the LG-105 on my 442. Compact and cheaper than the other options, but also not as comfortable to shoot as the other options.

For a concealed carry piece I would suggest sticking to the 105 or the 405, with a strong preference for teh 405 if you can afford it.

I don't think I need (or want to pay for) a scandium frame .357.

A wise choice...as the .357 loads in these revolvers don't buy you any additional performance. Just more blast, recoil, and general unpleasantness. Personally I think the aluminum framed revolvers are plenty light enough for any reasonable purpose.

I just don't see ever firing .357 out of such a small gun, I think it will be limited to .38 +Ps tops.

As far as I know there is no .357 load that can beat the performance of the Speer 135 grain +P .38 spl Gold Dot load from a J frame.

I like how the 442 is no snag, but I think my wife would like the ability to fire single action as well. Is the DA pull on any model better than another?

The trigger varies a bit from sample to sample, but in general the triggers on J frames are all heavy. They can be mastered, but it takes quite a bit of practice...which can be decidedly unpleasant with some of the super-light guns. The J frame is one of the most difficult handguns to shoot well if for no other reason than physics. You've got a weapon that weighs about a pound and yet has a 12-15 pound trigger.

Still, there's no better combination of power, reliability, and concealability...and that's why we all carry them.

The 638 is a good option, as long as it doesn't turn into a single action gun on the range. Most practice should be done with the trigger you're going to use in a real fight, namely the DA trigger. The ability to cock if you need/want to is certainly nice.

We couldn't dry fire the weapons at the shop we were at "for safety reasons" so I really didn't get to feel the triggers of the various weapons.

That shop sucks.

The only j-frames I have ever fired is an old 36 which had a very smooth and sweet trigger in DA and a crisp SA trigger. It was a really old gun though and probably not indicative of a modern offering.

Trigger impressions are highly subjective, so it's difficult to offer input here. The only way to judge the trigger on the guns is to pull the trigger. If a shop is so uptight that they can't handle a couple of dryfires on a production gun (I could understand this policy if it was some rare expensive collector piece...not on a modern production J frame) then find somewhere else to buy, in my opinion.

One thing I think you should give careful consideration to:

The reason for the J frame's popularity as a carry gun is the superb reliability they offered for such a long time. S&W f**ked all that up by installing those idiot locks in their revolvers.

There are documented instances of those locks spontaneously engaging under recoil, especially in J frames using +P ammo. This means you pull the trigger, the gun fires, and then the action locks up like Obama without a teleprompter.

Not cool. Still, it's not a reason to avoid the J frame. S&W actually produced a run of lock-less 642's and 442's. If you would prefer the 638, then buy one...just remove the idiot lock. It's pretty easy to do.

[trio]

my wife carries an older 442 w/ crimson trace grips


i had a local smith (Sam Hatfield) do a trigger job on her gun and put the lighter S&W springs in it and it made a world of difference....its really nice....


i understand the desire to hammer back somewhat, but I am a pretty big believer in carry and train how you are going to fight, and the fact of the matter is the most important shot your wife will ever take (and hopefully will never take) is going to be in DA...

i've had this argument with fans of DA/SA autos that say they never shoot in DA because if they need the gun they will just "hammer back"....i think thats a crock of shit that could easily get you killed at the wrong moment

soooo....I think the 442/642 is the best choice...and get her used to the DA....but the 638 is a great gun too....just make sure she practice, practice, practices with that first (and probably subsequent) shots in DA

[David Thomas]

S&W actually produced a run of lock-less 642's and 442's.

In addition to no-lock 642's and 442's, S&W also made no lock model 37's and 40-1's. The 37's are hard to find, but still out there. 442's and 40-1's should be easy to find.

The CT grip I like on the J-Frame is the 105.

[decodeddiesel]

Wow thanks everyone for the input.

JW777 thanks for the detailed explanation of the J-frames and the CTC grips, that really helps a lot. Yes that store does suck, and their prices are high, but they're really the only place locally that has any j-frames in stock. I won't be buying from them though, I'll probably find some place online which has the pistol I want.

trio, I like the idea of sticking with a 642 or 442 as it will force us to become proficient on the weapon.

[SeriousStudent]

I keep coming back to a 642, over and over....... I tote that little bugger more than anything. I work in an area where I would be fired, keel-hauled, and torn asunder by wild dogs if found with a weapon. So a J-frame usually gets the nod.

May I be so bold as to suggest a pair of guns? Perhaps a Model 60, to practice with so as to avoid creating a flinch, or a visit from El Snatcho? I have a nice old Model 60-1, two-inch barrel, in .357 magnum. With some light handloads, it is not at all difficult to practice with. It has an old Bianchi "Lightning" grip in it, that I scored off fleabay for about 10 bucks. It allows for a single-action carry, similiar to the 638. It's definitely heavier than the 642, and usually ends up in a parka pocket in the winter time. It rides well in a Galco horsehide pocket holster.

Its use also eases the wear and tear on the aluminum-framed 642. Plus it has much better sights. I hope your better half has good eyesight, as the sights on most older J-frames are marginal at best.

BTW - they are reintroducing the old Nyclad load. Great for practice, and the dead-soft lead seemed to expand even at the slow velocities. I am sure LtCmdr Roberts could provide some wisdom on that load, if you asked him politely.

I usually carry the Speer Gold Dots specifically designed for short barrels in my J-frames.

Best of luck to you both, and thank you for your service to our country.

[RadioActivity]

Just keep in mind, and I don't mean to preach...a J frame may be, say, less intuitive to shoot than a slightly larger firearm. Encourage her to practice. She might be more inclined to shoot more often and longer sessions if she was using something like a G26 or Springfield EMP ect. While nothing really does disappear for concealment like a J frame, I find it hard to believe most people train with them as much as they should. I think a lot of people, especially women, are baited by how small and easy to carry it is and make up their mind on that alone.

While getting her to carry a gun might be half the battle (as with most people) the other half is what counts......how well they shoot it.

That said...I just recently plunked down the change on a S&W M&P340. . It has its purpose and its place, but I will always shoot my Springer EMP better.