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Thread: recoil spring life span?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    I personally never pay to much attention to round count when I am using quality springs. I do a simple test with a 30rd mag and the bolt locked back to figure out if my buffer spring is GTG or not.

    C4
    How does bolt lock back play into assessing spring effectiveness? I would think that as a spring wears, the ability to lock the bolt back becomes easier and easier since it's compression dampening weakens over time. I suppose a spring could get so weak it would not offer enough compression resistance and you could end up having extractor issues, but it would have to have got pretty bad by that point that other problems would appear prior.

    I would guess that the real test is whether or not a spring that's had many rounds through it is able strip off a new round and ensure the bolt is fully seated/engaged (rebound force).

  2. #52
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    It doesn't...

    Quote Originally Posted by jmart
    How does bolt lock back play into assessing spring effectiveness? I would think that as a spring wears, the ability to lock the bolt back becomes easier and easier since it's compression dampening weakens over time. I suppose a spring could get so weak it would not offer enough compression resistance and you could end up having extractor issues, but it would have to have got pretty bad by that point that other problems would appear prior.

    I would guess that the real test is whether or not a spring that's had many rounds through it is able strip off a new round and ensure the bolt is fully seated/engaged (rebound force).
    Here's what he said:

    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    No. The spring would not allow the bolt to strip a round off of a 30rd mag.

    C4
    This was on his out-of-spec short, 8000 round buffer spring.
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

  3. #53
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    That makes more sense.

  4. #54
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    I believe that CS springs are the best for longevity.
    However, I use normal springs, and do regular replacement of them.

    I replace all springs on my birthday each year.

    I'm not a "high round count" type of shooter normally, so it's ok in my case.
    If I were attending a training class, I'd replace all the springs before I went to the class, as preventive maintainance.
    In a typical class which has alot of rounds expended, I'd also replace them soon after the class was over, maybe a few range trips later.

    I'd consider 2000-2500 rounds a good time to consider changing all action-related springs, if you shoot alot and can't use the "birthday method".

    Springs are cheap.
    I think it's better to use routine replacement of them, so you don't get caught with a bad one at the wrong time.

    I use the same attitude with all my other high wear items like extractors and firing pins too.

    I realize that it is prevalent for AR owners to wait until something breaks, before they replace it. I don't use that philosophy.

    To each his own.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner
    And I asked you for some evidence, other than what your vendors tell you to sell you their products, e.g. comparative shrinkage rates, so we could determine which is more cost-effective. You may very well be correct. But comparing the rates and cost/frequency of replacement over time settles the matter, not just your say so. OK?

    What is so hard about providing it? Isn't that how one objectively determines if a choice is "cheap"? More expensive (and profitable to you) doesn't necessarily mean my choice is "cheap", does it?
    And if you read my post, you would have realized that I verified what the vendor stated. That SS springs will shrink just sitting in your weapon.

    There is no need to calculate rates (as I hope no one on here is that anal retentive). The sole purpose of my comments was to make you aware of something you didn't know (which you didn't). There is also no need to "compare" rates as it really doesn't matter. Why do I say that? Because CS springs simply out lasts SS springs and provide more consistant resistance for double the round count(at least).
    The goal with building a reliable weapon is to use parts that are considered the most dependable and longest lasting. This is why we use 4150 barrel steel and have it chrome lined. You could use the barrel just fine without the chrome, but it wouldn't last as long or be AS reliable.

    As far as putting money in my pocket, I could care less. You don't have to buy a ISMI spring. You also don't have to buy it from me. The purpose of my comments is to educate folks about springs and nothing more. I will also state, that I will NEVER get rich from selling ISMI buffer springs so you can keep you logic that I am just trying to pull a fast one on the unsuspecting consumer and shove it where the sun don't shine!



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 01-22-07 at 09:36.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart
    How does bolt lock back play into assessing spring effectiveness? I would think that as a spring wears, the ability to lock the bolt back becomes easier and easier since it's compression dampening weakens over time. I suppose a spring could get so weak it would not offer enough compression resistance and you could end up having extractor issues, but it would have to have got pretty bad by that point that other problems would appear prior.

    I would guess that the real test is whether or not a spring that's had many rounds through it is able strip off a new round and ensure the bolt is fully seated/engaged (rebound force).

    In my test, I was referring to the bolt not having the ability to strip a round off the mag while it was locked back. I didn't explain the procedure well enough (sorry).



    C4

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by twl
    I believe that CS springs are the best for longevity.
    However, I use normal springs, and do regular replacement of them.

    I replace all springs on my birthday each year.

    I'm not a "high round count" type of shooter normally, so it's ok in my case.
    If I were attending a training class, I'd replace all the springs before I went to the class, as preventive maintainance.
    In a typical class which has alot of rounds expended, I'd also replace them soon after the class was over, maybe a few range trips later.

    I'd consider 2000-2500 rounds a good time to consider changing all action-related springs, if you shoot alot and can't use the "birthday method".

    Springs are cheap.
    I think it's better to use routine replacement of them, so you don't get caught with a bad one at the wrong time.

    I use the same attitude with all my other high wear items like extractors and firing pins too.

    I realize that it is prevalent for AR owners to wait until something breaks, before they replace it. I don't use that philosophy.

    To each his own.
    That is certainly a good way to do it, but bubblehead feels that is a waste of money to use this method. I do not and generally do what your saying if I have had a high round count year.



    C4

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    There is no need to calculate rates (as I hope no one on here is that anal retentive). The sole purpose of my comments was to make you aware of something you didn't know (which you didn't). There is also no need to "compare" rates as it really doesn't matter. Why do I say that? Because CS springs simply out lasts SS springs and provide more consistant resistance for double the round count(at least).

    C4
    I read somewhere that by the testimony of two or three witnesses a matter is determined. You made a point about shrinkage that I had never heard or read. Has anyone else? I searched a couple of sites and found nothing. I heard from one witness: you (and that was what you heard from your vendor.) I asked for some evidence other than what you say. I should think you would be happy to share that. It would only make you look like a really knowledgeable dealer trying to educate his customers so they make better choices.

    Ronald Reagan said, "Trust but verify." What's the problem with verifying what you say?

    I could say that using an untested bolt from the same original contractor, but not marked "MPF" or "MPC" is cheap. But I won't.
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner
    I read somewhere that by the testimony of two or three witnesses a matter is determined. You made a point about shrinkage that I had never heard or read. Has anyone else? I searched a couple of sites and found nothing. I heard from one witness: you (and that was what you heard from your vendor.) I asked for some evidence other than what you say. I should think you would be happy to share that. It would only make you look like a really knowledgeable dealer trying to educate his customers so they make better choices.

    Ronald Reagan said, "Trust but verify." What's the problem with verifying what you say?

    I could say that using an untested bolt from the same original contractor, but not marked "MPF" or "MPC" is cheap. But I won't.
    How many people do you know, buy a new spring and stick it in the weapon and let it sit? Generally, the only people that would do this kind of thing are spring manufacturers and dealers that are into learning about springs. Very narrow field and explains why you don't ever hear anything about it. Not to mention, how many dealers do you hear talking about doing PM's on weapons and doing research on springs to find the best? Not very many (if any).

    As far as bolts go, it is apples and oranges. I wanted to provide a good source of quality bolts and carriers at a fair price (which I have done). Ever see any other dealer go to this effort to improve a product and cut prices? Didn't think so.

    I would also suggest that you be careful about questioning my integrity as a dealer and as a person. I do not take kindly to it.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 01-22-07 at 11:05.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    I would also suggest that you be careful about questioning my integrity as a dealer and as a person. I do not take kindly to it.


    C4
    I want to trust what you say but there is a need to verify it. Is that a problem? You told us that the new Magpul magazines would have ISMI springs yet the list price you gave was 2 bucks over what they sold a spring for. What you posted was incorrect. Is calling your attention to that questioning your integrity? Or seeking verification of other assertions, e.g. shrinkage, you make based on what vendors have told you privately? If it is, please forgive me.
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

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