NRA Service Rifle

[Dimp]

Would've rather gone to Pac Fleet matches but sched. wouldn't allow. Just dropped some green back on a DCM legal pistol so as usual I have alot invested. Hopefully I win some shiny stuff and not a piece of leather.

[Alpha Sierra]

Used to, until the prone bug bit and bit hard.

Now I just run this:

[agr1279]

I have also bedded the rear lug of the upper so there is no play between upper and lower. (I know it isn't supposed to affect accuracy, but all of the Navy RRA rifles last year were tightly fitted upper/lower combos, so I figured it couldn't hurt).

Doc,

None of the rifles are bedded. RRA are normally that tight. If you used Navy equipment we met since I was the first class passing weapons out of the van and ammo on the line. I will be doing it again this year. This will probably be my last Navy match.

Daniel Jones
AW1 USNR

[TY44934]

Whats even more entertaining than that is people who have no clue about NRA service rifle competition. The AR-15 rifle we shoot are not your average AR-15. 20" match barrels, 1/4 min pinned precision sights, full floating front hand guards, two stage match triggers, ammo hand loaded and tuned to the best performance for each individual barrel (which requires hours of painstaking testing and more testing). Leather shooting jackets that fit like a glove. A national match leather slings that are pulled so tight they cut off the circulation in your arm all used in conjunction to hold the rifle as still as possible for the highest shot value. And oh yeah all done with open metal sights at up to and including 600 yards. Thats what NRA service rifle is all about. No scopes, no fancy optics, No BS!!

Those sound like some really fancy, gussied-up, precision custom jobs there, all right.

But for those of us who were issued (& own) carbines with (as you call them) "BS" on them such as "fancy optics" (I suppose you are referring to ACOGs and AimPoints?) - why is it your game is called "Service Rifle" when the services never fielded anything like your guns? And what about the current-issue for most everyone actually in the field these days (ie boots on the ground overseas). From what i can tell, its an M4, not some custom A2. Granted - the M4 is a carbine, not a rifle. Since they have refused to to create "service carbine" - are active duty/recent vets simply not welcome unless we go out and purchase some civilian match rifle & take up handloading? Maybe I am missing something here - but what makes this game "service" related?

I suppose the SPR is a rifle. Mind if I use the issue bipod & optic as intended? (rather not use a circulation-cutting sling, thanks).

Not to knock the fun of Service rifle, but the "BS" comment you added just seemed to go too far when hyping an anachronistic sport like Service Rifle.

[agr1279]

Those sound like some really fancy, gussied-up, precision custom jobs there, all right.

But for those of us who were issued (& own) carbines with (as you call them) "BS" on them such as "fancy optics" (I suppose you are referring to ACOGs and AimPoints?) - why is it your game is called "Service Rifle" when the services never fielded anything like your guns? And what about the current-issue for most everyone actually in the field these days (ie boots on the ground overseas). From what i can tell, its an M4, not some custom A2. Granted - the M4 is a carbine, not a rifle. Since they have refused to to create "service carbine" - are active duty/recent vets simply not welcome unless we go out and purchase some civilian match rifle & take up handloading? Maybe I am missing something here - but what makes this game "service" related?

I suppose the SPR is a rifle. Mind if I use the issue bipod & optic as intended? (rather not use a circulation-cutting sling, thanks).

Not to knock the fun of Service rifle, but the "BS" comment you added just seemed to go too far when hyping an anachronistic sport like Service Rifle.

You can use your MK12/DMR clone in "F" class if you want. Service rifle along with pistol are akin to NASCAR. The externals must look like issued items but the insides can be quite different. Matter of fact the NRA just allowed M-110 clones also. CMP hasn't as of yet but I see that happening soon since the AMU was the ones driving the M110

There has been talk of modifying the rules to allow M4 clones into the matches but if you want to take your M4 clone and compete in an NRA match you are more that welcomed but you are severely handicapping yourself if you do. CMP does have the Carbine matches but that is more driven for the M-1.

If you are active/reserve Navy you can come to the matches without owning any equipment and they have loaner gear. The Army only allows issued equipment in their matches from what I've been told.

There is a lot of history behind service rifle and there has been a lot of resistance to change.

Come on out and bring what you own. For the most part that is how the rest of got into the game.

Dan

[exkc135driver]

But for those of us who were issued (& own) carbines with (as you call them) "BS" on them such as "fancy optics" (I suppose you are referring to ACOGs and AimPoints?) - why is it your game is called "Service Rifle" when the services never fielded anything like your guns?

NRA Service Rifle competition started in the early part of the last century. The reason that it is called “Service Rifle” competition lies in both the history of the competition and the rules for the competition. If you are interested, you may research them for yourself.

Competitors may use the M1 Garand, M14/M1A, and M16/AR-15 platform. I’m not sure if it is still legal to use M1903 or Krag rifles.

Not to knock the fun of Service rifle, but the "BS" comment you added just seemed to go too far when hyping an anachronistic sport like Service Rifle.

Anachronistic sport? If competitors used blunderbusses and flintlocks, then that term might be appropriate. The firearms used in Service Rifle competition are not anachronistic. Perhaps you do not know what the word means.

[Alpha Sierra]

Those sound like some really fancy, gussied-up, precision custom jobs there, all right.

But for those of us who were issued (& own) carbines with (as you call them) "BS" on them such as "fancy optics" (I suppose you are referring to ACOGs and AimPoints?) - why is it your game is called "Service Rifle" when the services never fielded anything like your guns? And what about the current-issue for most everyone actually in the field these days (ie boots on the ground overseas). From what i can tell, its an M4, not some custom A2. Granted - the M4 is a carbine, not a rifle. Since they have refused to to create "service carbine" - are active duty/recent vets simply not welcome unless we go out and purchase some civilian match rifle & take up handloading? Maybe I am missing something here - but what makes this game "service" related?

I suppose the SPR is a rifle. Mind if I use the issue bipod & optic as intended? (rather not use a circulation-cutting sling, thanks).

Not to knock the fun of Service rifle, but the "BS" comment you added just seemed to go too far when hyping an anachronistic sport like Service Rifle.

Perhaps you should not be so thin skinned.

Perhaps, instead of poking fun at the sport, you should find a rifle that meets the rules, buy some ammo (Prvi Partizan makes great 75 grain ammo that will reach the 600 yrd targets) and improve your marksmanship skill.

NRA Highpower has two major rifle categories: service and match. A match rifle can be anything that is .30 caliber or less, is a repeater, has metallic sights, holds at least 5 rounds in the magazine, and can be quickly reloaded. An issue M-4 with a NM carry handle/rear sight (so that you have enough elevation for the 600 yard line) and an M1 canvas sling is an NRA match rifle and you get to shoot the same course of fire and targets as the service rifle shooters do.

[SSGN_Doc]

Doc,

None of the rifles are bedded. RRA are normally that tight. If you used Navy equipment we met since I was the first class passing weapons out of the van and ammo on the line. I will be doing it again this year. This will probably be my last Navy match.

Daniel Jones
AW1 USNR

I remember you. I know the navy rifles aren't bedded. But there was a touch of slop in this upper and lower of mine and a little birdy told me that the AMU had played around with epoxy bedding the rear lug and skim bedding between the upper and lower receiver surfaces. I don't think it makes any real difference mechanically, but it sure feels nice to have no wobble in the upper and lower.

The RRA that I got out of the van last year was a nice tight fit from RRA to begin with. It definitely shot nice. I just couldn't get a complete RRA with the current wait times. Then the back surgery threw another kink in my plans for this year.

Got my AR and my 1911A1 built and don't get to play this year.

Mark Sizemore
HMC(SS)IDC USN

[SSGN_Doc]

1. Maybe I am missing something here - but what makes this game "service" related?

2. Not to knock the fun of Service rifle, but the "BS" comment you added just seemed to go too far when hyping an anachronistic sport like Service Rifle.

I'm down medically right now so I've got some time to address some of your questions.

1. The game of service rifle, and the birth of the NRA come out of the American Civil War. After Billy Yank spent the first half of the war getting his butt handed to him by lesser equipped troops of lesser manpower, due in no small part to greater marksmanship skill, some officers decided Federal troops needed to continually hone their marksmanship skills after the war was concluded.

Regional matches or meets were set up to find the best marksmen and to coach other soldiers in the fundamental skills of marksmanship. Now granted, back then they didn't have much choice between using issued weapons or fancy accurized rigs. The regional meets became an elimination game and top competitiors and units went on to compete in a final match held in New York. Eventually the matches were moved to Camp Perry, Ohio, and the early beginings of the Civilian Marksmanship Program were set up under Theodore Roosevelt.

The games continued as a training tool on marksmanship fundamentals. And have stuck to those same basic principles to this day. Those primary fundamentals being: natural point of aim, proper sight alignment, proper sight picture, trigger control, and breath control. These fundamentals have not changed with technology, and any marksman seeking to improve his skills as a shooter must still practice these.

As others stated, there have been changes in highpower to accomodate different classes of rifles. Service Rifle remains one of the most tradition based rifle competitions still around. By limiting the modifications to weapons that have been established as general issue, there is a leveling of the playingfield that makes the competition more of a rifleman versus rifleman sport instead of a gear versus gear sport. But as with any competition shooters will seek a competative edge. This is why match barrels, float tubes and precision sights are made that configure to the outward military issue appearance of a general issue rifle.

The fact that there are some modifications shouldn't prevent someone from trying service rifle competition with an unmodified rifle. Someone can still learn a lot with a box stock A2. Will he have a competative edge, no.
Also, local gun clubs often ofer service rifle competitions that have some flex in the rules, where carbines are welcome. Again the short sight radius could be a bit of a disadvantage, but the carbine owner can still find out the practical limits of his carbine. (And probably surprise himself in the process).

The basic course of fire involves:
1. shooting standing at 200 yards with the rifle only supported by the body. No sling use is allowed to provide further stabilization. (10 rounds in 10 minutes)

2. Going from standing to sitting and firing 10 rounds in 60 seconds at 200 yards with one magazine change. Sling in tight for this one.

3. 300 yards going from standing to prone and firing 10 rounds in 70 seconds with one magazine change. Sling in tight.

4. 600 yards Prone slow fire 20 shots in 20 minutes single loaded. Sling in tight

If you don't know how much of an advantage a good tight sling can have on your stability and repeatability of shots then you really need to get out and try this stuff. Groups can be cut dramatically by proper sling use.



2. As to the "BS" coment. I may be wrong in my interpretations, but I took it to mean the arguments that often happen at practical shooting matches don't happen at highpower matches as frequently and are usually more civil. (I still make sure I've got 2 one dollar bills though, just in case I need to challenge a spot.) Perhaps "BS" was meant as distractions of gear, and gear failures, but I really thought he was talking about competator attitudes.

If you were trying to imply that Service Rifle is "Archaic" or "old fashioned", it is built on traditions and the rules and the competition itself is designed to get the most out of the shooter. If trying to better ones self is out of style that's a pretty bold and sad statement. The need for marksmanship still remains a sound military principle for the times the optics fail, or when you need to know who your best shooter is to get the skilled shooting job done.

Somali Pirates got a lesson in rifle skill and how important it can be to be able to use a rifle in rough elements. To perform such fundamental skils as being able to read wind, and to account for drop. Sometimes you can't just send a hail of bullets in the direction of a 3 MOA red dot.

[Jellygun]

What's the JB weld trick ? I know what JB weld is.

I put the rifle together.

The lower is an Anvil Arms lowr reciever (Laser engraved by them for me as well).
Stag lower parts kit with RRA 2 stage trigger.

The Upper is a DPMS NM A2 with WhiteOak NM rear sight apperture and I did the JB weld trick to true up the elevation travel.
DPMS BCG
DPMS 1:8 twist cryo-treated SS barrel. (Everyone else was out of barrels when I started looking) I know this is going to have a tight chamber. But it seems more accurate than I am still, so I'll have to get to where I can outshoot this rig before I have to replace the barrel.

I have also bedded the rear lug of the upper so there is no play between upper and lower. (I know it isn't supposed to affect accuracy, but all of the Navy RRA rifles last year were tightly fitted upper/lower combos, so I figured it couldn't hurt).

Running the web sling as I find it easier to get set between stages.

It's definitely a different set-up than any of my other ARs that have been built with an eye toward light weight, and fast pointing.

I just found that I need to really build on my marksmanship fundamentals and found that Service Rifle is the best place for me to do this. I like the challenges of a "limited class" and working within those limits to see how good I can get and how much I need to improve. It seems easier without all the "high speed parts" acting as variables and distractions that you can blame for poor performance.

I can still grow into this sport by getting better barrels down the road, spending some cash on a good shooting coat, and getting a nicer spotting scope. But most of the growth will have to come from my own improvement in technique.