Pistol Reload

[Dunderway]

I searched for this but could not find it, and have never seen it addressed.

When do you reload your secondary? I’ve practiced a lot of drills where you go from primary to secondary, but it seems like in most instructional videos you just re-holster and divert back to primary. Should I be doing an admin reload on my pistol after the threat is cleared before I re-holster? I carry a 1911 with 7 shot mags, so I don’t feel very comfortable re-holstering that thing with only one or two rounds left in it. What do most courses teach? What do you competition guys do, since I think that is very relevant in this case. Thanks!

[epf]

Situation dictates. That said, if the threat is indeed cleared then I would admin reload the pistol to ensure it is prepared for the next time.

[stony275]

Are you talking about after you've transitioned from rifle/carbine to pistol?

I think this would be the ideal time to do a tactical reload (at the very least a reload with retention) of the pistol before holstering it, especially in the case of a 1911.

[RD62]

+1 to the two responses above mine.

If I have transitioned it is most likely because the primary ceased working due to malfunction or lack of ammo. Therfore, I am going to "top-off" if you will my secondary, that I know is working, once I have dealt with the immediate threat, and before I begin to correct whatever issue I had with my primary.


-RD62

[Derek_Connor]

I searched for this but could not find it, and have never seen it addressed.

When do you reload your secondary? I’ve practiced a lot of drills where you go from primary to secondary, but it seems like in most instructional videos you just re-holster and divert back to primary. Should I be doing an admin reload on my pistol after the threat is cleared before I re-holster? I carry a 1911 with 7 shot mags, so I don’t feel very comfortable re-holstering that thing with only one or two rounds left in it. What do most courses teach? What do you competition guys do, since I think that is very relevant in this case. Thanks!

To define the 2 type of reloads I think we are talking about:

1.) Speed Re-load = oh shit, I am at slide lock, I need to get another magazine into my pistol ASAP. This means dropping the magazine thats in the gun with the magazine release, allowing it to hit the deck, and simulataneously coming up with your full magazine into the well. Then back on target to clean them up. This is ideally done behind some type of cover and/or concealment. of course, situation dependent.

2.) Tactical Re-load = you have finished addressing the situation in front of you, there is a "lull in the gunfight" aka for us joe blows, you think you are done shooting your targets, you still have 1 or 2 or even 6 rounds in your gun, you want to top off to MAXMIUM capacity and put it away. You grab a full magazine, indexing it the way you prefer, bring gun into work space, drop half empty magazine out of pistol, while retaining that, you insert full mag, put half mag away in a pouch.

Now this is all assuming you are working only with a pistol. If you have a rifle, Ive seen instructors not be concerned putting your pistol away half empty after transitioning, Ive seen some enforce it 100%.

I myself, also running a single stack, always put it away full. This is assuming of course I have the time/cover/concealment if it were ever to happen in "real life"

[LOKNLOD]

Honest question:
Is there a reason you wouldn't top it off prior to reholstering, when specifically going back to your rifle after transitioning to pistol?

If you transitioned, it means your rifle stopped working. Empty mag or malfunction. Right?

When you reholster your pistol, it's to get that rifle up and running. If you've got time and cover to stop and fiddle with your rifle, presumably you've got time to top off your pistol first. If your rifle isn't working yet, you want to keep the pistol as prepped as possible. I'd image that the last thing you want is to suddenly need to use a half-empty pistol because you've not un-f*cked your rifle yet.

The only situation I can think of would be if you drew your pistol as you transitioned and moved to cover but didn't fire it.

Maybe I'm way off (Disclaimer: remember I'm a nerd, not a BTDT cool action guy) but I'm thinking that not topping off would be the rare exception, not the rule.

[Derek_Connor]

Honest question:
Is there a reason you wouldn't top it off prior to reholstering, when specifically going back to your rifle after transitioning to pistol?

If you transitioned, it means your rifle stopped working. Empty mag or malfunction. Right?

When you reholster your pistol, it's to get that rifle up and running. If you've got time and cover to stop and fiddle with your rifle, presumably you've got time to top off your pistol first. If your rifle isn't working yet, you want to keep the pistol as prepped as possible. I'd image that the last thing you want is to suddenly need to use a half-empty pistol because you've not un-f*cked your rifle yet.

The only situation I can think of would be if you drew your pistol as you transitioned and moved to cover but didn't fire it.

Maybe I'm way off (Disclaimer: remember I'm a nerd, not a BTDT cool action guy) but I'm thinking that not topping off would be the rare exception, not the rule.

LOK -

i am in complete agreement w/you, 100%.

As above, ive seen some instructors enforce it, some not.

One situation, which I hate getting into, is what type of pistol you are running. Lets assume both guns below have a full magazine and one in the chamber:

If you are running a Glock 17 9mm (or similar) and you just shot 4 rounds and want to get your rifle back into the fight, you have 14 rounds (78% capacity still).

vs

If you are running a 1911 .45acp (or similar) and you just 4 rounds (assuming 8 round magazine), and you want to get your rifle back into the fight, you have 5 rounds left (55% capacity still)

So, comparing the above scenarios, I am not going to tell others what to do or what they should do, but no matter what gun Im running, I would ALWAYS want to try and put it away to full capacity. But some out there would be ok putting there glock away with 14 rounds still left in it.

[ToddG]

You've just demonstrated that your immediate situation is such that you may need to rely on your secondary (pistol) at a moment's notice. This is either because your primary (rifle) is malfunctioning, low on ammo, etc.

Would it not then seem most logical to make sure that your secondary is topped off and in perfect condition before putting it away, under the assumption that you may very well need to rely upon it again soon?

I typically break reloads down into three types:

1. Slidelock (also called "emergency" and sometimes "speed" reloads): Empty gun. Reload immediately and drop the slide.
2. Speed (also called "IPSC" and sometimes "tactical" reloads): Weapon is in battery; eject magazine and allow it to drop to the ground. Reload immediately.
3. Retention (also called "tactical," "administrative," and sometimes "Glock" or "IDPA" reloads): Weapon is in battery; eject magazine and retain magazine during the reload. IDPA has created terms of art for this in which a "Tactical" reload involves making the magazine exchange at the gun (this is the traditional "tac reload") and a "Retention" reload involves making the magazine exchange at the belt (this was popularized by Glock and thus is often called a "Glock reload").

I know folks who'll tell you only a fool lets his gun run dry, so there is no need to practice a slidelock reload.

I know folks who'll tell you only a fool leaves ammo behind, so there is no need to practice the speed reload.

I know folks who'll tell you only a fool worries about a few rounds left in an ejected mag, so there is no need to practice retention reloads.

All three have their place depending on your equipment, circumstance, and environment.

[Derek_Connor]

You've just demonstrated that your immediate situation is such that you may need to rely on your secondary (pistol) at a moment's notice. This is either because your primary (rifle) is malfunctioning, low on ammo, etc.

Would it not then seem most logical to make sure that your secondary is topped off and in perfect condition before putting it away, under the assumption that you may very well need to rely upon it again soon?

agreed.

I typically break reloads down into three types:

1. Slidelock (also called "emergency" and sometimes "speed" reloads): Empty gun. Reload immediately and drop the slide.
2. Speed (also called "IPSC" and sometimes "tactical" reloads): Weapon is in battery; eject magazine and allow it to drop to the ground. Reload immediately.
3. Retention (also called "tactical," "administrative," and sometimes "Glock" or "IDPA" reloads): Weapon is in battery; eject magazine and retain magazine during the reload. IDPA has created terms of art for this in which a "Tactical" reload involves making the magazine exchange at the gun (this is the traditional "tac reload") and a "Retention" reload involves making the magazine exchange at the belt (this was popularized by Glock and thus is often called a "Glock reload").

I must admit, i've never heard of the "IPSC" reload. Interesting.

I know folks who'll tell you only a fool lets his gun run dry, so there is no need to practice a slidelock reload.

I know folks who'll tell you only a fool leaves ammo behind, so there is no need to practice the speed reload.

I know folks who'll tell you only a fool worries about a few rounds left in an ejected mag, so there is no need to practice retention reloads.

All three have their place depending on your equipment, circumstance, and environment.

Unfortunately ive heard all those taught at one point or another..

[rob_s]

I'm also having a hard time coming up with a scenario where I wouldn't top off the pistol before I holster. *Maybe*, as a homeowner or LEO with more restrictions on who we can just plain shoot I could see a possible scenario wherein you feel that you've crossed from the area of justifying lethal force into having to go hands-on, or possibly if a family member was down and gushing, I might stow a partially-depleted pistol in order to render aid. Both of these are pretty far stretches for me.

Todd's terminology seems to mostly gel with what I've seen Jeff Gonzales use on the alumni forum. Emergency=slide lock, speed=eject partially loaded mag with gun in-battery, admin=retain partially loaded mag with gun in-battery. I've taken to using these terms, more or less, at our drills nights.

Interestingly Jeff and Pat have both posted opposite views in the past on what students should do. Jeff has said that he encourages students to let the gun run dry to get much-needed transition and/or emergency reload practice, while Pat expects you to keep the gun topped up in order to keep up your situational awareness. I let our shooters make up their own minds, but we do a block of instruction on reloads about once every other month so that they can decide for themselves.