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Thread: Guns are dangerous. Federal AE223BK Kaboom.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    A little clarification here. His ammo in question is Federal AE (American Eagle) .223 ammo. It is not Remington brass. It is stamped FC= Federal Cartridge and at the bottom is marked .223 Rem. That is common with most .223 ammo since the real name is .223 Remington.

    At this point blaming the ammo is a bit premature. Yes, it could have been faulty ammo. But, he also indicated that the upper had 10K rounds through it. There may well have been a headspace issue here or a combination of the two.

    Again, ANY AMMUNITION that you have can malfunction and cause a situation like this. Just like bad QA/QC can allow a crappy weapon to roll off the line and end up on the dealers shelf.
    Of course. I have seen plenty of LC M855 "issues" ranging from squibs to over charged rounds, etc during my days as an Armorer and times I played RSNCO.

    The thing that sounded warning bells to me was that it was loose packed in a plastic bag. I just have never seen Federal sell ammo in this fashion, but according to Skintop911 this is a common practice.

    Could well have been an OOB, but the fact that as far as we know, pending professional examination by Steve, the damage was limited to the bolt and extractor. This would lead me to think the failure occurred while the bolt was locked up. To me screams double/overcharged ammo. If we had seen more damage to the upper/barrel extension I would be more inclined to agree with the OOB argument. Still though I don't want to venture too far out of my lane here. I was just a US Army Armorer therefore if this had happened to one of my M4s I would have just sent it in for higher level maintenance and requested a replacement M4 .

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by decodeddiesel View Post
    Huh, I guess I've just never seen nor heard of Federal selling their .223/5.56 in "bulk bags" like that. I'll take your word for it though.
    No problem. There's a pic of the package higher up in the thread, and another poster or two mentioned buying it themselves.

    Federal has bulk-packed their AE (and some others) for certain customers for some time. If I'm not mistaken, it's new-ish for mass sales though.

    Given that perceived F-up on the dealer's end what your saying seems entirely plausible.
    Yup. Seen it a dozen times. AE and XM cases comingled, substituted intentionally or accidentally, or ignorantly. Stuff happens. Inspect on arrival.

    ETA: OK that conspiracy remark is a little uncalled for here Sir. I wouldn't say it's a conspiracy theory, as in I seriously doubt someone intentionally sold Derek some bum ammo with the intent to cause him harm. I would not however (especially in this day and age of panic buying and hoarding) put it past some crooked MF'er to pull some crap where they sell home rolled reloads with little or no QA/QC as new name brand ammo.
    That comment wasn't directed at you, just the situation. No offense intended. It's not unthinkable that a dealer would screw someone like that, but it's not the first leap I'd take either. Some folks do need to take a deep breath, look at the case, read the packaging, and think for a second about what might have happened at the dealer end.

    Virtual-beverage of choice for you, on me.
    Last edited by ST911; 04-27-09 at 10:36.

  3. #63
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    The local Sportsman's Warehouse sells this stuff:



  4. #64
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    A friend and I just split a box of the same stuff. It came in the same box and was loose in a plastic bag. The gun shop we got it had 20 round boxes of Federal XM193, just like in the picture in the post before this one, and told us this was the same stuff, but once we opened the box we found out otherwise. I don't think the gun shop pulled a fast one, the guy just didn't know what he talking about. Remember, just because we are on the internet and know the muzzle velocity and frag figures for 75g Partizan doesn't mean everyone else does.

    I fired 150 rounds of it the other night with no problems at all. One thing I did notice is that not all the ammo is the same.

    The majority of it is marked "F C 223-REM" and has an overall measurement of 2.195".

    Some of it is marked "L C 0 8" and some is marked "C C I W 6" and their overall measurement is 2.250". The primer and the back of cartridge area on the rounds marked "C C I W 6" have red sealer on them so the back of the rounds look red. This is what caught my attention.

    The F C casing is about .015" shorter than casings with the other marks.

    We did initially compare one of the rounds marked "F C 223-REM" to a round from a 20 round box of Federal XM193 and it was shorter. This was at my buddies house, he had the box of rounds so I can't get a measurement.

    I wonder if this stuff is a mix of .223 and 5.56 and that someone with a .223 chamber could have problems with it?
    Last edited by EzGoingKev; 04-27-09 at 11:42.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    No problem. There's a pic of the package higher up in the thread, and another poster or two mentioned buying it themselves.

    Federal has bulk-packed their AE (and some others) for certain customers for some time. If I'm not mistaken, it's new-ish for mass sales though.



    Yup. Seen it a dozen times. AE and XM cases comingled, substituted intentionally or accidentally, or ignorantly. Stuff happens. Inspect on arrival.



    That comment wasn't directed at you, just the situation. No offense intended. It's not unthinkable that a dealer would screw someone like that, but it's not the first leap I'd take either. Some folks do need to take a deep breath, look at the case, read the packaging, and think for a second about what might have happened at the dealer end.

    Virtual-beverage of choice for you, on me.
    No sweat, thanks!

  6. #66
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    Last weekend we were chronoing some Corbon .223. I brought some XM193 (lot #7, the old white box) as a control round to compare to the Corbon.

    The XM193 was doing as high as 3360 fps out of a 20" chrome lined Hbar. This was 10 feet from the muzzle. 10 or so rounds were fired. None was slower than 3300 fps.

  7. #67
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    The pictures you posted are definitely reloaded ammunition. I doubt federal would sell reloads like that in one of those boxes (which should have red 20 rounds boxes in it).

    Here's what happened.

    Your dealer bought some reloads from an unknown entity. He sealed them up in a plastic bag. He put them in an empty Federal ae223 box and sold them to you as new.

    Federal is not to blame here, if you want to blame someone, it should go directly back to the person who sold you the ammo.

  8. #68
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    This looks to me like an obvious OOB discharge, as an earlier poster had mentioned.

    There is a 1/8" ring swelled just in front of the case head all around the head.

    When it went off, this much of the case was NOT in the chamber.

    I've seen the exact same thing happen when there was a disconnector problem, even did the exact same extractor damage.

    Looks like a FCG problem to me, NOT an ammo issue at all.

    HB
    Last edited by Lostinthewoods; 04-28-09 at 17:12.

  9. #69
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    Wow, I have had more issued w/ Federal than Wolf or any other brand, I dont get it!

    Glad you're ok!
    Second Amendment Absolutist!

    "Speed costs money, How fast do you want to go?"
    -seen on a speed shop in Michigan

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostinthewoods View Post
    This looks to me like an obvious OOB discharge, as an earlier poster had mentioned.
    Out of Battery discharges are almost impossible on the AR. The firing pin is not capable of touching the primer until the bolt is fully locked up.

    I won't say it's completely impossible, but it's very close. There'd have to be some sort of other factor involved... debris or a improperly seated primer, etc.
    Last edited by markm; 04-27-09 at 14:54.

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