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Thread: Lessons about Wolf ammo - pic heavy

  1. #1
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    Lessons about Wolf ammo - pic heavy

    Last weekend I attended a Viking Tactics (http://www.vikingtactics.com/) Carbine 1.5 Class. The Primary Instructor was retired SGM Kyle Lamb, President and CEO of Viking Tactics. SGM Lamb spent most of his military service as part of the non-existent US Army unit that specialized in performing super-secret Black Operations all over the world. In fact, he was on of the hockey-helmet wearing Operators involved in the incident in Mogadishu, Somalia that was depicted in "Blackhawk Down". His Assisiant Instructor was "Talkative Dan" (a name we gave him because of he only spoke when necessary).

    Here is a sample of one of the drills we did in this class: http://www.vikingtactics.com/pop-instr_video11.html

    In this 3-day class, I ended up shooting more than 1,200-rounds, almost 600-rounds of that during the first day alone. Unfortunately, I was using Wolf polymer for that first day and everything went fine until about the 500th round. That's when I experienced my first stuck case during one of the high-round count drills (multiple targets). It was so stuck that a piece of the STEEL case was tirn right off. I pulled myself off the line and rod the case out.

    First Stuck case:


    I went back onto the line and experienced a second one soon after. This one would not come no matter what I did and resulted in me having to switch to my other SBR (LMT MK 18 upper) for the last two magazines worth. I had to soak the stuck case in "Carbob Killer" for more than 4-hours before I could get it to loosen enough to be able to knock it out using a cleaning rod and a hammer.

    Second stuck case (after successful removal):


    I was amazed on just how much gunk I had to clean out both from the bolt and the chamber!! I can't believe just how much crap those Wolf rounds leave behind.


    I finished the rest of the class using a mixture of brass-cased ammo without a single issue. What is curious was the fact that there were other shooters in the class who also shot Wolf but did not experience the same issues. However, there were others who did experience problems similar to what I experienced to include one who was shooting 5.45x39 ammo (curiously, his barrel would ring/resonate after each last shot). The biggest difference was that those who did not have any problems actually took the time to lean and lube their rifles (at least the chambers) during the short breaks.

    The good news is that the chrome bolt and extractor combination I installed in my rifle worked very well!! So well that it actually ripped a piece right off two steel-cased rims. The bad news is either I have a very tight chamber (doubtful after over 9,000-rounds through it) or I have a rough chamber (quite possible).

    After I got back, I did a complete and thorough cleaning of the whole rifle. Yesterday I let a couple of people shoot a total of 40-rounds of Polymer Wolf through it. When I got home, I inspected it to determine just dirty this ammo is. Below are the results.

    After 40-rounds of Wolf:


    LESSONS LEARNED:

    - Using dirty ammo like Wolf negates the advantages of using a gas piston system in terms of reliability and reduced maintenance. One should clean and lubricate the chamber (at least) every chance they can.

    - Chrome extractors with black rubber inserts and Wolff power extractor springs work as advertised!!

    - The VTAC Carbine 1.5 class is well worth the time and money. So much so that I am hoping to retake the same class next year. In thi class SGM Lamb will force anyone who has taken a Basic Carbine Course well out of their comfort level. I highly recommend it to anyone who has taken a Level 1 Carbine class.
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

  2. #2
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    Lightbulb

    Good lesson for the rest of us - sounds like you learned one in the process as well!

    I've NEVER been keen about polymer-coated ammo - even IN a piston gun (that's my POF in the avatar). I have some (500 rounds of) Barnaul Silver Bear (that's as cheap as I was willing to go!), as my "last-stand/bottom-of-the-barrel" ammo, but that's where it's gonna STAY, until such time.

    I just scraped 300 rounds of Privi residue off of my M&P15T, and it's pretty dirty stuff too. Hard to say which lesson's most important - what to do at such a course when the rifle's working, or what to do, once it STOPS mid-lesson!
    - Either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape - Sam (Robert DeNiro) in, "Ronin" -

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    Carlos,

    Is that an LWRC upper pictured?

    -RD62

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    It's still the primer selant thats the culprit. You can see it migrating into your chamber.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

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    My theory (which is based on limited experience) is that piston driven guns do not get warm enough to liquify the red stuff found in Wolf. DI guns heat up the lacquer to the point where it doesn't wreak as much havoc to the feeding and extracting of rounds

    anybody agree?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD62 View Post
    Carlos,

    Is that an LWRC upper pictured?

    -RD62
    Yes. It's an 10.5-inch LWRC M6A1 upper that has just over 9,000-rounds.

    I failed to add that bcause we were running a hot range, I did have to leave the gun loaded in between strings but was able to unload it during the breaks (which did not make much difference).
    Last edited by CarlosDJackal; 04-26-09 at 14:55.
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Metal View Post
    It's still the primer selant thats the culprit. You can see it migrating into your chamber.
    Yup. In the last photo, you can also see how much of it is making its way into the ejector channel and under the extractor after just 40-rounds!!
    Last edited by CarlosDJackal; 04-26-09 at 14:55.
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_War_Wagon View Post
    Good lesson for the rest of us - sounds like you learned one in the process as well!

    I've NEVER been keen about polymer-coated ammo - even IN a piston gun (that's my POF in the avatar). I have some (500 rounds of) Barnaul Silver Bear (that's as cheap as I was willing to go!), as my "last-stand/bottom-of-the-barrel" ammo, but that's where it's gonna STAY, until such time.

    I just scraped 300 rounds of Privi residue off of my M&P15T, and it's pretty dirty stuff too. Hard to say which lesson's most important - what to do at such a course when the rifle's working, or what to do, once it STOPS mid-lesson!
    Hadn't heard Privi was dirty. Interesting. Have a case headed this way now. I'll pay attention.

    Wolf is some dirty $#%$ no doubt.

  9. #9
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    Was this Black Box or Military Classic?? I just pulled my M4 out and looked at the bolt and chamber after about 200 rounds of Wolf since last cleaning and it looked nothing like you pics. Interestiing stuff, bad batch maybe?

    Jeff
    Last edited by G-lock; 04-26-09 at 22:43.

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    My post copied from FALFiles. Im not the only one.
    I know this doesnt pertain to AR's but could happen to an AR10. Wolf .308 should only be used in bolt guns IMHO.
    Others have experienced this.

    So last weekend I go a good deal on some Wolf 308. Went out to the desert for some varminting but the weather didnt cooperate enough to blast the FAL alot. I actually only shot 10 rounds of the Wolf and it worked fine except for a couple of the primers popped out of the casings. So yesterday my brother in law and I headed out to the local public range. I had 1 round in a mag so I inserted it and pulled the trigger. We've all seen the pics. The casing stayed in the chamber and the back of the casing blew off. It blew the guts out of the mag swelling the mag body and was quite scary. One heck of a percussion and some bits in my face. Anyways im ok, the rifle is ok, the mag is now a few spare parts (never did find the floor plate). Here's some pics. Gunna go back and trade this stuff in. Perhaps some pics sent to Wolf are in order.




    Pic of the bolt and extractor. Seems to be fine.


    Lot# 023-06
    No date





    Link to the thread (hope its alright, very informal)
    http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=2
    Last edited by CreatorsRage; 04-26-09 at 17:11.

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