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Thread: Poor quality

  1. #41
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    Personally I don't much like AR's as toys. That's what I have a C&R license for...

    Mine is a defensive weapon. Frankly I want it to work. Thankfully mine works like a dream.

    When people are new to a weapon like the AR, I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out the way that things should be done and educating them. After all, isn't that why this site is here?

    I don't think we ought to immediately go "You bought a Bushmaster?? Oh NOEZ!! UR rifle is teh suxorrz!!" (pardon my attempt at replicating teenager speak...) but steering newbies to the right choices and reasons for them is a good thing, in my humble opinion...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Wayne777
    steering newbies to the right choices and reasons for them is a good thing, in my humble opinion...
    I agree. But you have to take their real needs into account, and you have to know when to just give your two-bits worth and walk away. Some people just won't listen, or they've been pumped so full of BS by gun shop clerks or their "gun guy" friend that there's no changing their mind.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s
    I agree. But you have to take their real needs into account, and you have to know when to just give your two-bits worth and walk away. Some people just won't listen, or they've been pumped so full of BS by gun shop clerks or their "gun guy" friend that there's no changing their mind.

    I would hope their needs would be a good, reliable AR for the money. I think that is a standard thing across the board.




    C4

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    I would hope their needs would be a good, reliable AR for the money. I think that is a standard thing across the board.
    Define reliable. If the guy is only ever taking the rifle to the range once every two months and shooting 100 rounds through it per visit, and it's run 100% of the time, but it's an Oly Plinker, is it reliable?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s
    Define reliable. If the guy is only ever taking the rifle to the range once every two months and shooting 100 rounds through it per visit, and it's run 100% of the time, but it's an Oly Plinker, is it reliable?
    Reliable is reliable and using quality parts help in this area. Back again, to everyone believes that if the SHTF, they have an AR at the ready.


    C4

  6. #46
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    Rob S

    That is because YOU think that you'll use your carbine to defend yourself and/or your family. The VAST majority of shooters are not in the same boat and do NOT view their AR15 carbine as anything more than just a toy. For them, "almost as good" is MORE than good enough, and they are willing to sacrifice quality for a lower cost.
    And you wonder why you don't seem to fit into any of these boards...
    Oh that's right.. you are an "Independent thinker".... You don't "Conform" to the mainstream... I suppose you carry the cheapest Insurance premium because the likelihood of you ever being in an Auto Accident is pretty slim... Home owners Insurance... why bother... the odds are slim you'll need it.

    But yet you take one of Pat's classes which is clearly geared towards "Fighting with a carbine...Interesting..

    Unlike you.. I want to be the third pig who builds his house out of Brick so when the Wolf comes I'm ready... so guys like you who build your house out of straw have somewhere to run to when it gets blown over....

    But I guess I've always been the "Boy Scout" type who would rather be prepared and never need it vs guys like you who wait till it's to late.

    Like Pat always says... Any Buckethead (actually I say that) with a gun can shoot... that's just part of the equation.

    Still waiting on your "review" of Pat's class... can't wait to hear it from "your perspective"....

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s
    I agree. But you have to take their real needs into account, and you have to know when to just give your two-bits worth and walk away. Some people just won't listen, or they've been pumped so full of BS by gun shop clerks or their "gun guy" friend that there's no changing their mind.
    I'm going to use your post as an example to further explain why I dont like that word.

    This is exactly why you DONT take their needs into account. I dont know what someone else needs. You dont know what someone else needs. You simply explain to them why you use what you use, how you use it, why you use it, etc. Then they can make their own decision as to whether its right for them or not. Why they think they do or dont need something is completely irrelevant to me anyway. I dont concern myself with it.
    Protego quod vallo.
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s
    Define reliable. If the guy is only ever taking the rifle to the range once every two months and shooting 100 rounds through it per visit, and it's run 100% of the time, but it's an Oly Plinker, is it reliable?
    In my opinion if a rifle works, so be it.

    The goal of using high quality parts or buying from a Tier 1 or Tier 1.5 maker is to try and get a weapon that has the largest chance of being reliable right out of the box. If a guy can get a Bushmaster like mine that has performed superbly in multiple high-round count training courses, that's awesome. Good on him. (err...me....whatever...) If he can do the same with an Oly or a DPMS....More power to him.

    Personally my standard for a defensive rifle is that it has to survive a 3,000 round training course with no major problems. If it can do that, I don't have the slightest hesitation to depend on the rifle.

    I get that you are trying to say that reliability is in the eye of the beholder and that a guy who doesn't use or intend to use his rifle for serious purposes doesn't need the same standard of reliability that someone going to award virgins in Afghanistan needs...

    But in all honesty, for the kind of money these things cost today and how simple it is to do little things right...I don't think it is out of line to expect better, even if the weapon isn't going to be dragged through exotic locales.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Wayne777
    But in all honesty, for the kind of money these things cost today and how simple it is to do little things right...I don't think it is out of line to expect better, even if the weapon isn't going to be dragged through exotic locales.
    To me this is the bottom line.


    However, I understand Rob's point. I know of people who talk about using their ARs for defensive purposes. However, most of them do not. Nor would they be able to do so if required. They have neither the gear, magazines or ammo on hand. Their talk about defensive use of their AR is nothing more than "cloud talk." A cheaply made AR will serve their purposes. However, back to J_W's comment, why build them cheap?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dport
    To me this is the bottom line.


    However, I understand Rob's point. I know of people who talk about using their ARs for defensive purposes. However, most of them do not. Nor would they be able to do so if required. They have neither the gear, magazines or ammo on hand. Their talk about defensive use of their AR is nothing more than "cloud talk." A cheaply made AR will serve their purposes. However, back to J_W's comment, why build them cheap?
    Part of these problems are related to alot of fields nowadays. People either do not know how to do the job right or have no pride in their work.

    You see it everywhere.

    It's true, regardless of how you use the stick, you should expect to get a quality product--especially if you payed more for what you would expect to be quality.

    Alot of problems arise when people buy the cheap knockoff stuff or low rate parts that are priced accordingly and try to put them to true use and wonder why the stuff doesn't work.
    GET IN YOUR BUBBLE!

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