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Thread: Poor quality

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike01ta
    Not you in general. Just this whole place. I was excited to find this place but now I dont come around as much because 99% of what goes on around here is product bashing. Dont buy Oly,BM,RRA,Stag,S&W etc. Buy Colt or your manhood will falloff. You found a problem on 1 RRA and made it a internet wide problem with a few keystrokes. If you found a problem like this on a colt or one of your approved brands would you make this big of a deal out of it or would you quietly sweep it aside to keep from ruining the lore of the great ones? Their just seems to be alot of onesidedness on this stuff. This just reminds me of how all the Glock guys would always claim product faults with the XD. The XD is sooo bad blah, blah. My favorite was a guy who said he wouldnt buy the XD over his Glock because it was foreign made. Guess he thought Austria is part of the USA. That may not be the case here but it feels like it somehow.
    mike

    I think you might be mistaking M4C with another forum. Manufacturer bashing is not allowed (within reason). Meaning that if you buy a product and it is defective and have NOT contacted the manufacturer FIRST for assistance, do not come on here to bitch about them. If you believe that the pics of that RRA I posted is a fluke, you need to look at more RRA AR's as it is NOT a fluke!

    Tier one AR's are going to be more popular on a professional forums. The other AR's you mentioned are NOT tier one AR's. The tier two/three AR's are not trash and would never tell anyone NOT to buy one, but to simply be aware of their shortcomings. This is called consumer awareness and is the same reason why millions of people subscribe to magazines like consumer reports. In that mag, they tell you which car is better than another, based on reliability and resale value. Is it product bashing to state such things? I don't think so.

    As far as Colt goes, I am not a big fan of theirs and don't own any of their products. I much prefer to "roll my own" than buy a factory built AR. I would also say, that I have most likely owned more RRA AR's than a lot of people and have owned them from day one (as my second AR was a RRA).




    C4

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye
    There are some threads around here that you really should read. One of the things I find refreshing here, is the lack of Colt worship. Colt makes a fine weapon, but they are not the be all end all, and are not perfect. There's more than one thread here pointing that out. I find that most of the folks here, or so it appears to me, are more focused on what works and doesnt work, regardless of who makes it.

    No company makes a perfect AR 100% off the time (not even Colt). They do turn out a tier one weapon though and is one of the best factory built AR's around.

    Colt kool-aid is not passed around at M4C.



    C4

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike01ta
    Not you in general. Just this whole place. I was excited to find this place but now I dont come around as much because 99% of what goes on around here is product bashing. Dont buy Oly,BM,RRA,Stag,S&W etc. Buy Colt or your manhood will falloff. You found a problem on 1 RRA and made it a internet wide problem with a few keystrokes. If you found a problem like this on a colt or one of your approved brands would you make this big of a deal out of it or would you quietly sweep it aside to keep from ruining the lore of the great ones? Their just seems to be alot of onesidedness on this stuff. This just reminds me of how all the Glock guys would always claim product faults with the XD. The XD is sooo bad blah, blah. My favorite was a guy who said he wouldnt buy the XD over his Glock because it was foreign made. Guess he thought Austria is part of the USA. That may not be the case here but it feels like it somehow.
    mike
    Mike, I've been noticing you jump between this thread and the Olympic thread and if you're basing your claim of product bashing on those two threads you haven't read enough. In fact, since this forum started that's the only Olympic thread (there might have been one other) we've had so calm down.

    If you spend a little more time here you'll notice that MANY of the members here are professional trainers or industry insiders. When they talk about Bushmasters or Olympics they are basing their opinions on their history of seeing dozens if not hundreds of them and not a single incident. I don't form opinions based on one thread alone. Instead opinions should be formed after reading numerous threads on the subject, understand who the poster/thread starter is and their background and your own first hand knowledge. If you have a different opinion based on FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE, please share it.

    If Pat Rogers says 10 guys showed up at one of his classes with Bushmasters and 8 gas keys were loose that's a trend that needs attention and is not manufacture bashing. Was that an isolated incident? If you read on I think you'll see it's a trend with Bushmaster and not a one time thing. If you take this thread into consideration with the experiences of many members here you'll understand what we are trying to accomplish; education.

    Thread like this one are to be used to educate. If I owned a Bushmaster or RRA I would not take these threads personally. However, I would use them to ensure my particular carbine did not have these deficiencies and I would correct them if they did. That's the intent.
    Last edited by M4arc; 01-08-07 at 10:25.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4arc
    Mike, I've been noticing you jump between this thread and the Olympic thread and if you're basing your claim of product bashing on those two threads you haven't read enough. In fact, since this forum started that's the only Olympic thread (there might have been one other) we've had so calm down.

    If you spend a little more time here you'll notice that MANY of the members here are professional trainers or industry insiders. When they talk about Bushmasters or Olympics they are basing their opinions on their history of seeing dozens if not hundreds of them and not a single incident. I don't form opinions based on one thread alone. Instead opinions should be formed after reading numerous threads on the subject, understand who the poster/thread starter is and their background and your own first hand knowledge. If you have a different opinion based on FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE, please share it.

    If Pat Rogers says 10 guys showed up at one of his classes with Bushmasters and 8 gas keys were loose that's a trend that needs attention and is not manufacture bashing. Was that an isolated incident? If you read on I think you'll see it's a trend with Bushmaster and not a one time thing. If you take this thread into consideration with the experiences of many members here you'll understand what we are trying to accomplish; education.

    Thread like this one are to be used to educate. If I owned a Bushmaster or RRA I would not take these threads personally. However, I would use them to ensure my particular carbine did not have these deficiencies and I would correct them if they did. That's the intent.
    Amen Marc. My biggest hope with this thread is that people will learn to look over their AR more carefully to make sure everything is correct and if it isn't, they will fix the problem.


    C4

  5. #95
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    Thumbs up OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by M4arc
    Mike, I've been noticing you jump between this thread and the Olympic thread and if you're basing your claim of product bashing on those two threads you haven't read enough. In fact, since this forum started that's the only Olympic thread (there might have been one other) we've had so calm down.

    If you spend a little more time here you'll notice that MANY of the members here are professional trainers or industry insiders. When they talk about Bushmasters or Olympics they are basing their opinions on their history of seeing dozens if not hundreds of them and not a single incident. I don't form opinions based on one thread alone. Instead opinions should be formed after reading numerous threads on the subject, understand who the poster/thread starter is and their background and your own first hand knowledge. If you have a different opinion based on FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE, please share it.

    If Pat Rogers says 10 guys showed up at one of his classes with Bushmasters and 8 gas keys were loose that's a trend that needs attention and is not manufacture bashing. Was that an isolated incident? If you read on I think you'll see it's a trend with Bushmaster and not a one time thing. If you take this thread into consideration with the experiences of many members here you'll understand what we are trying to accomplish; education.

    Thread like this one are to be used to educate. If I owned a Bushmaster or RRA I would not take these threads personally. However, I would use them to ensure my particular carbine did not have these deficiencies and I would correct them if they did. That's the intent.
    I will concede. I will keep my mouth shut when I hear how bad everything is. Will that be acceptable?

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike01ta
    I will concede. I will keep my mouth shut when I hear how bad everything is. Will that be acceptable?
    If you have something to contribute, please do so. If your experiences are different from others in this thread (and the other ones) feel free to share them. First hand experience is always preferred however. If we openly discuss the good, along with the bad, we might learn something we didn't know before. That's the goal right?

    This forum was started so everyone could discuss these types of issues in a respectful, professional and mature environment regardless of opinion. If you don't think philosophy suites you then you might be better off on another site.

  7. #97
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by M4arc
    If you have something to contribute, please do so. If your experiences are different from others in this thread (and the other ones) feel free to share them. First hand experience is always preferred however. If we openly discuss the good, along with the bad, we might learn something we didn't know before. That's the goal right?

    This forum was started so everyone could discuss these types of issues in a respectful, professional and mature environment regardless of opinion. If you don't think philosophy suites you then you might be better off on another site.
    Did you not notice the wink? All is good. I listened to what you had to say. Dont banish me off the board for agreeing with you. Geez

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike01ta
    Did you not notice the wink? All is good. I listened to what you had to say. Dont banish me off the board for agreeing with you. Geez
    That's it, you're gone!

    j/k

  9. #99
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    It sounds like RRA quality has slid

    Which would explain why some of us have rifles built by them that exhibit none of the defects listed

    As in there was no loctite on my receiver extension, adequate staking job, etc.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obiwan
    It sounds like RRA quality has slid

    Which would explain why some of us have rifles built by them that exhibit none of the defects listed

    As in there was no loctite on my receiver extension, adequate staking job, etc.

    I think as manufacturers push to get more AR's out the door, bad things happen.

    RRA has NEVER made a mil-spec weapon, but their older AR's had good fit/finish and high QC.


    C4

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