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Thread: Poor quality

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    Stag does not offer M4 barrel extensions or M4 recievers. They did do a limited edition AR awhile back that had them, but that was it.

    Your dremel cuts look better than the one I saw today, the question still remains as to why RRA does it at all?

    It is hard to see your staking, but you should be able to see the metal touch the carrier key bolts. If it does not, then your staking job is not correct.



    C4
    Slightly OT here:

    Grant, we just got a special run of 16.1" Stags with 4150 barrels 1/7" twist and very nicely machined M4 ramps(last month) . My question to Stag was why they install their taper pins opposite to everyone else's?. Their key staking is notoriously poor to be sure.
    Nobody Cares! Fix It!

  2. #22
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    Oh man...thanks Grant for posting this thread, first you knock my S.I.R. (and tell all why ARMS is a suck company)...then you have to go and BLAST my RRA M4gery
    but I pulled it out of the case to double check it and I'm happy to report that my carrier was staked very well, and the feed ramps are pretty smooth and even(even if they did rip the anodizing off).
    I'm still happy with mine though...it shoots like a laser(and now I'm saving for a "TDP" gun like you all keep talking about.

    Whats next...are you going to tell me my 870 and my Kimber 1911's are scrap metal too

  3. #23
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    Hey Raining Brass, I wouldn't take it personally. One of my favorite and most reliable guns is an old hodge-podge of parts from various manufactures that defies the odds and keeps running. In fact the only failure I had was the gas key came loose around the 5K mark. The kicker there is it's a Colt BCG

    Shoot your RRA and enjoy it. At one time many thought that RRA was the best value going in the AR world

    I can understand the staking job here, few others do it right as well and if they did we wouldn't have been introduced to Ned's kick ass staking tool! But why in the hell would they dremel ramps in an upper? I would think it would be cheaper just to buy uppers with ramps already forged in them because you wouldn't have to pay someone to stand there with a dremel tool all day. Maybe they are just using up old stock?

    I've always said, if I were to get a RRA I'd have Steve build it for me.

  4. #24
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    I'm inclined to agree with bigbore on this one.

    While I personally choose to have things done in what I consider to be the "right" way, I think many of us get far too carried away in regards to some of these matters. The reality is that for probably 95% (maybe even 99%) of non-LEO civilian owners, "almost as good" really is "good enough". The worst thing that's going to happen to the vast majority of us is that a range day will be cut short because some part broke, and we'll have to go home until we get a replacement.

    With that said, I just got done with a 3-day Pat Rogers class, and I spent far too much time standing around while we un-f@cked someone ELSE's sub-standard firearm/magazine/optic/ammo issue. I generally couldn't care less what kind of gun someone else shoots, but it amazed me at how many people showed up to this class with truly sub-standard gear, and it frustrated me to find that their gear selection affected my training experience.

  5. #25
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    I work on RRA rifles on an almost a daily basis at work (as we sell a lot of them). Most of the work is customizing and not functioning repair.

    My two biggest complaints about RRA ARs is that their gas keys are staked like sh** (already mentioned here) and that they use about a 1/2 bottle of blue Loc-Tite between their carbine receiver extensions and lower receivers.

    Proper assembly doesn't require Loc-Tite to secure a receiver extension. Torque and staking works just fine as directed in the US Military Techincal Manual, few companies properly assemble ARs by following these guidelines.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  6. #26
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    Rob S - Every class I've been to has the same problems. The best solution I've seen is at Blackwater. The student gets a loaner and the junk gun is sent to the armory for repair. Class keeps right on rolling. 15-20 guys shouldn't stand around with their thumb up their ass because someone else wasn't prepared for class. We always take spare everythings, so we can keep on blasting. Last trip to Blackwater, 4 of my guns were on the line all week. None had a malf of any kind. I think I've figured out how to keep 'em running. 2 of the carbines were assembled by me, 2 were M16's slightly re-worked by me. Staked keys, lots of lube, good mags, Federal ammo, every attachment option loc-tited/staked. Best Xmas present I got was the high-dollar, high speed staking tool, so I don't have to steal GotM4's anymore!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raining Brass
    Oh man...thanks Grant for posting this thread, first you knock my S.I.R. (and tell all why ARMS is a suck company)...then you have to go and BLAST my RRA M4gery
    but I pulled it out of the case to double check it and I'm happy to report that my carrier was staked very well, and the feed ramps are pretty smooth and even(even if they did rip the anodizing off).
    I'm still happy with mine though...it shoots like a laser(and now I'm saving for a "TDP" gun like you all keep talking about.

    Whats next...are you going to tell me my 870 and my Kimber 1911's are scrap metal too
    LOL, you know me...



    C4

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s
    I'm inclined to agree with bigbore on this one.

    While I personally choose to have things done in what I consider to be the "right" way, I think many of us get far too carried away in regards to some of these matters. The reality is that for probably 95% (maybe even 99%) of non-LEO civilian owners, "almost as good" really is "good enough". The worst thing that's going to happen to the vast majority of us is that a range day will be cut short because some part broke, and we'll have to go home until we get a replacement.

    With that said, I just got done with a 3-day Pat Rogers class, and I spent far too much time standing around while we un-f@cked someone ELSE's sub-standard firearm/magazine/optic/ammo issue. I generally couldn't care less what kind of gun someone else shoots, but it amazed me at how many people showed up to this class with truly sub-standard gear, and it frustrated me to find that their gear selection affected my training experience.
    There are two issues here. First is poor craftsmanship. The second is a reliability issue. People should get what they pay for (which is properly staked carrier keys and non-dremeled feed ramps). This isn't rocket science here.

    I am a civy that will NEVER settle for "almost as good as." Reason? My and my families life matter more than that. It is ALWAYS better to have the best and never need it.



    C4

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4
    I work on RRA rifles on an almost a daily basis at work (as we sell a lot of them). Most of the work is customizing and not functioning repair.

    My two biggest complaints about RRA ARs is that their gas keys are staked like sh** (already mentioned here) and that they use about a 1/2 bottle of blue Loc-Tite between their carbine receiver extensions and lower receivers.

    Proper assembly doesn't require Loc-Tite to secure a receiver extension. Torque and staking works just fine as directed in the US Military Techincal Manual, few companies properly assemble ARs by following these guidelines.
    Agree. Who ever thought it is a good idea to loctite (sometimes with red) the RE in???? That is the cheap way out (again) and just makes changing the part out a nightmare.



    C4

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    I am a civy that will NEVER settle for "almost as good as." Reason? My and my families life matter more than that. It is ALWAYS better to have the best and never need it.

    C4
    Until the day I die, I will never understand why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. I guess this is an area, again, where I see people (generally speaking) use that word I hate, in regards to whats right for me and what I'll do with my weapons.
    Protego quod vallo.
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

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