Why the Benelli M4 (or M1014, depending...) Hate?

[WS6]

I did not look at the pic as the internet conenction I am at is not working well, but IIRC it has a col. stock and a T1 in an LT mount and maybe the ill-conceieved SF rail-system w/FUG on it.

THe rail+FUG are completely unneccessary, and the collapsible stock's main purpose is to allow the use of a reflex optic when on the middle notch.

The collapsible stock runs 7-1,000, the M4 around $1500, and the T1, around $650 with l/t mount.

In comparison, an LMT piston gun runs $2100, a TA31F runs $900, and Troy BUIS another $250.

I don't see them being poo-poo'ed based on price, mainly need vs. want.

[Dave Williams]

Why was the rail system ill-conceived?

Dave Williams

[WS6]

Why was the rail system ill-conceived?

Dave Williams

This thread will elaborte:
http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/show...t=Surefire+M80

[Failure2Stop]

Now, I think, since we have shared why we are not all that enthusiastic about the platform it is time for those that those that are to let us know what the Benelli M4 does better than other similarly priced auto-loading shotguns.

I ask this in all sincerity.

[WS6]

Now, I think, since we have shared why we are not all that enthusiastic about the platform it is time for those that those that are to let us know what the Benelli M4 does better than other similarly priced auto-loading shotguns.

I ask this in all sincerity.

GOOD REQUEST!

Okay, why I like my M4S90 (keep in mind, I have only shot a 18" cyl. 870, a winchester 1500 20ga semi, and a wingmaster 870 in 20ga, and my 2 M4's, when it comes to shotguns.):

Reliability-- As long as I do my part (no firing wildly from the hip with target loads) my M4 has cycled. Both of them. Period. DOwn to 2.75 dram target loads, up to 3" 1oz slugs at almost 1800fps.

Durability--I know people who beat the snot out of theirs, don't clean at all save for adding oil (not cleaning) in over 5K rounds. Still running strong and no mis-fires (I clean my stuff, so I rely on them to test, lol). Also, after Benelli *86'ed the 4-port piston design, parts breakage became so rare that I have not heard of it. Period. I have NOT HEARD of someone breaking an M4 through non-accidental trama (bomb, dropping it in the path of a tank, etc.). I have never heard of a current manufacture M4S90 11707 breaking.

Simplicity--It is a simple design, easily cleaned, and nothing to adjust. I could candycane my mags with 2.75 dram STS target loads and 3" Magnum slugs, if I felt the need, and it would function.

Performance--WIth slugs, I get 3-4" groups standing offhand shooting at 50 yards. This is using a MOD Briley choke, another feature--interchangeable choke-tubes. With buckshot, it patterns VERY well. I can usually keep 100% of my pellets on target out to 50' (target being 14x14", the average human torso is considered 18" or so across.) with a good choke like the Briley. At 25 yards it keeps 80% on target, and others near-by. At 50 yards, I keep about 50% on target ( again, 14x14"). Then again, at 50 yards, it's slug time!

The M4 doesnt NEED upgrades. It comes with nice LPA sights, yeah, the collapsible stock is nice, and so is a FL mag tube, but the tube is $100-200 depending on which one you get, and anyone can install it in their garage with only a heat-gun. Much easier than needing to install LPA's or something.

Collapsible stock--Very cool. Basically a CDI factor unless you run optics, in which case it is all but necessary. ON the middle-section, it is PERFECT height for optics and a great cheek weld.

Benelli CS: I called them yesterday telling them I lost a small part (firing-pin retaining pin O-ring). They put one in the mail for me. No problem.

Okay, that about covers it:

Glock-like reliability.
Accuracy. (slugs were only 1.8" off from mechanical zero at 50 yards...not bad!)
Durability.
Ease of use.
Aftermarket accessory support is pretty good.
Benelli CS is stellar.

Ability to dump a LOT of energy into a target.

Also the survivalist factor. Long after 5.56 is unavailable, I will be able to waltz into wal-mart and buy plenty of 12ga. I can hunt birds, rabbits, deer, bear, any animal, large or small, in North America, and most in Africa, with an M4S90. This means Grizzle protection, if I move (considering Alaska when I graduate), right down to the copperheads we have here in Lousiana.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me!

[johnnywitt]

I HAD 2 of them. I now have 0.
As a lifelong shotgunner, the M4 Benelli didn't work for me because it was a shotgun trying to be a Carbine. This is a problem because it didn't balance well and it wasn't fast and intuitive like a standard config shotgun, so I sold them for a handy profit. The M4 is also heavier than a regular Benelli because of the ARGO system ( a system that is only needed when you want to hang a lot of useless crap on your shotgun and try and turn it into a half assed carbine).
I disagree with some that say a shotgun is not effective for combat. There are people ( a lot of them in Texas due to extremely long bird seasons) that you definitely do not want to get sideways/tango with when they have a shotgun in their hands. I have a lot of trigger time on SMG's and the shotgun is what I would grab if dismounted. Nothing is faster to mount and shoot accurately if you are shooting a shotgun like a shotgun is meant to be shot- which is decidedly not like a carbine or rifle IMO.
I really like Benelli's and I've been shooting them hard since I bought my first one in 92 or 93. You just can't beat a Benelli allthough the newer ones don't have the same quality as the 90's guns. I like 870's too, but a Benelli M2 with a 21 or 24" BBL is hard to beat and somebody that shoots one a lot can reload pretty damn fast after years of practice. I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but most folks are just hell bent on trying to shoot a shotgun like a carbine by using PG, optics, slings, and slugs which negates any advantage a shotgun has as a close & medium range lightening fast weapon that shoots where you look (if it fits right).

[WS6]

I HAD 2 of them. I now have 0.
As a lifelong shotgunner, the M4 Benelli didn't work for me because it was a shotgun trying to be a Carbine. This is a problem because it didn't balance well and it wasn't fast and intuitive like a standard config shotgun, so I sold them for a handy profit. The M4 is also heavier than a regular Benelli because of the ARGO system ( a system that is only needed when you want to hang a lot of useless crap on your shotgun and try and turn it into a half assed carbine).
I disagree with some that say a shotgun is not effective for combat. There are people ( a lot of them in Texas due to extremely long bird seasons) that you definitely do not want to get sideways/tango with when they have a shotgun in their hands. I have a lot of trigger time on SMG's and the shotgun is what I would grab if dismounted. Nothing is faster to mount and shoot accurately if you are shooting a shotgun like a shotgun is meant to be shot- which is decidedly not like a carbine or rifle IMO.
I really like Benelli's and I've been shooting them hard since I bought my first one in 92 or 93. You just can't beat a Benelli allthough the newer ones don't have the same quality as the 90's guns. I like 870's too, but a Benelli M2 with a 21 or 24" BBL is hard to beat and somebody that shoots one a lot can reload pretty damn fast after years of practice. I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but most folks are just hell bent on trying to shoot a shotgun like a carbine by using PG, optics, slings, and slugs which negates any advantage a shotgun has as a close & medium range lightening fast weapon that shoots where you look (if it fits right).

Hrmmm, my M4 weghs a hair under 10oz more than the 18.5" M2 and holds 2 rounds more (3 if you count that the M2 can't ghost load unless modified, back to two I guess since we are talking modded weapons here). Has a collapsible stock which makes it easier to stow, and is VERY instinctive to shoot. Downed a pest bird with it the other day VERY naturally and quickly. Intuitively almost.

I guess if you are referring to a stock M4, they are kinda nose-heavy and weigh almost 8 pounds. Hence why people like me go and dick with things. To make them better.

I agree with your points when made about a stock M4 except with reguards to the gas system. It works wonderfully and will cycle light target loads held 1-handed. I do not think the ID system can do this. True, it was designed to have crap hung all over it, but I use it because it is ultra-reliable even without crap all over it.

[johnnywitt]

Hrmmm, my M4 weghs a hair under 10oz more than the 18.5" M2 and holds 2 rounds more (3 if you count that the M2 can't ghost load unless modified, back to two I guess since we are talking modded weapons here). Has a collapsible stock which makes it easier to stow, and is VERY instinctive to shoot. Downed a pest bird with it the other day VERY naturally and quickly. Intuitively almost.

I guess if you are referring to a stock M4, they are kinda nose-heavy and weigh almost 8 pounds. Hence why people like me go and dick with things. To make them better.

I agree with your points when made about a stock M4 except with reguards to the gas system. It works wonderfully and will cycle light target loads held 1-handed. I do not think the ID system can do this. True, it was designed to have crap hung all over it, but I use it because it is ultra-reliable even without crap all over it.

Both of mine would run 1oz loads consistantly and the one would even cycle 7/8oz loads. They are a reliable and very well made weapon in my experience.
Different strokes... Biggest thing for me was a PG. I know about the "field stock" and actually had one. I think that I bought one of the last ones. Benelli supposedly discontinued them. I think Mann & Sons might still have one or two if anybody needs one.