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Thread: buying a SBR upper w/o the paperwork....yet...

  1. #1
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    buying a SBR upper w/o the paperwork....yet...

    Question:

    Would it be possible/legal to purchase a short barreled upper and NOT install it onto a rifle lower, before sending in the legal paperwork for an SBR? In theory at least, I'm thinking that it's not an "SBR" until I slap it onto a lower receiver with a stock, right?

    I have no intent of doing anything illegal, but with things like uppers being in short supply right now, I was just wondering that if I got an e-mail notice from Bravo Company that their 11.5" uppers came in stock, could I purchase now, fill out the paperwork, and wait to install until it got approved? It wouldn't be any different than buying it for a pistol lower, without having the pistol lower yet, right?

    How does the legal timing work on NFA items? Thanks.
    Last edited by Texpatriate; 05-08-09 at 13:21.
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  2. #2
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    It's not something I would do.
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  3. #3
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    It gets hairy if you've already got an AR lower registered in your name/household.

    You can't have "control" of the upper if you've got a lower even pending ATF paperwork.

    I'm in a similar situation as I've got a Larue 12" upper, but it's in control of a 3rd party (FFL SOT) till my paperwork clears. You can purchase that upper, but you'll want to have it be in posession of someone like an FFL, or even a friend as long as it's shipped to them and they are not an owner of an AR.

    I usually err on the side of caution regarding the whole "constructive intent" issue.
    Last edited by Titleist; 05-08-09 at 13:50.
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  4. #4
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    I had an 11.5" barrel for over a year before I got around to F1ing my lowers. It was a deal I couldn't pass up.

    Some people aren't comfortable with it, but I don't mind. Just don't build anything til your approval is back.

    There's not a single, solid case history of a "clean" citizen getting the shaft for this. The barrel/upper is a lawful item to own for investment... especially in this market.

  5. #5
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    I'm with markm on this. I'd be even less concerned if I had a lower in the process of being SBR'd legally -- heck, is that not "constructive intent" to follow the letter of the law? Having already mailed the ATF a fat check for a tax stamp while waiting to push some pins together is about as effective of a testimony as to your intentions to remain legal as you can possibly make.

    If possible, it wouldn't hurt to keep the upper separate or at a family member's house or something, or even just run a gun lock through the ejection port and put key in your safe deposit box or something.

    With the availability of BCM uppers if 11.5s came available, I'd snag one rather that waiting.
    --Josh H.
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  6. #6
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    I was in a similar situation as well.

    There was a deal I couldn't pass up on a 10.5in LMT so I scooped it up. I kept the upper at my parents house while the rest of my firearm related stuff was at my house until my Form 1 got approved

    -Carlo

  7. #7
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    there's nothing wrong with posessing a short barrel with no tax stamp- the ATF says if you pin shit to it, it's legal. well you have to possess the ****er to pin something to it, dont you?

    at this moment, i have 3 14.5 barrels in my possession, and have no SBRs or SBRs pending.. and not uncomfortable. they're all getting vortexs pinned on.

  8. #8
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    The only real issue will arise if you are dealing dope from your house and get raided or you call the BATFE and snitch yourself out. Otherwise just loosen the tin foil, purchase and relax.



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  9. #9
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    The government has, for a long time, taken the position (and won in court) that possessing separate parts that can be "readily assembled" into a machinegun is tantamount to possessing a machinegun. Machineguns, of course, are regulated under the same NFA that covers SBRs.

    While I've never heard of it happening, it's not a big leap in logic for them to say that you "constructively possessed" an unregistered SBR if you had laying around at least one complete title I AR or complete lower along with a short-barreled upper, and didn't have at least one registered SBR lower as well such that you had a lawful use for the upper.

    Again, never heard of someone being prosecuted for this scenario, but that doesn't mean it's a zero risk.

  10. #10
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    And unless you are doing something stupid or advertising it no one will know.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbrowne1 View Post
    The government has, for a long time, taken the position (and won in court) that possessing separate parts that can be "readily assembled" into a machinegun is tantamount to possessing a machinegun. Machineguns, of course, are regulated under the same NFA that covers SBRs.

    While I've never heard of it happening, it's not a big leap in logic for them to say that you "constructively possessed" an unregistered SBR if you had laying around at least one complete title I AR or complete lower along with a short-barreled upper, and didn't have at least one registered SBR lower as well such that you had a lawful use for the upper.

    Again, never heard of someone being prosecuted for this scenario, but that doesn't mean it's a zero risk.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

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