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Thread: Myth: "The M16A1 is a Replacement for an M16"

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frens View Post
    early Model 601 (AR15) had 1/14 twist IIRC...
    604 (M16) and 603 (M16A1) both have 1/12.

    as for 1/14 vs 1/12, here is what Ekie from TOS wrote about it:
    Thanks for straightening that out for me

  2. #22
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    Yes, the M16 (604) and M16A1 (603) were produced together, and one was not a replacement for the other, although 604 production finished up a good decade before the 603 production line was switched over to produce the M16A2.

    The 602 was an Air Force rifle, they bought all but a few hundred of them that Colt produced. The front pivot pin was not captive, and they were 1/12.

    The first US Army issue AR-15 was the 603 from the famous “one time buy” of contract “508”.
    Last edited by Ekie; 05-18-09 at 21:32. Reason: more info

  3. #23
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    Gentlemen: When I was an ARMY Boot (Ft.Jackson,SC, '82), we were issued M16A1's. Most were Colt but we had a few GM Hydramatic and 1 or 2 manufactured by Harrington and Richardson. Several lowers were marked "M16E1" Most were marked as M16A1. All were the standard captive push thru pin, no Colt civilian style screw. All shot well but not being new to AR's(I bought a Colt SP1 when I was 18), I noticed that the quality control was less on the Hydra and H&R's. I have always liked the A1 and with M193 ball, provided my eyes work OK, I guarantee I can engage and hit a man size target out to 350 meters, 1st shot. If the weapon is zeroed to me, anyway. I still have one I built up out of surplus Colt Barrel and parts(back when they were still available!) and a(don't laugh!) SGW lower, 25 years ago. It has given me Yeoman service, all these years, and is still one of my "GOTO" guns. lol
    When I went back to the ARMY in '89(Was injured and got it fixed), we trained on M16A1's for our Auto Rifle Badge and for marksmanship, trained on M16A2's. Problem was in supply. You had to have M193 ball for the M16A1 and M855 ball for the M16A2. While doing range duty, I noticed long keyhole punch out hits on the plastic popup targets on the KD range. The punch out hits were obviously made by 62grn M855 bullets going thru the target perfectly sideways! I mean clean cut-thru. You could tell it was M855 because the bullet from M193 is not as long. Saw more than 1, too. Apparently somebody was trying to bang M855 thru an M16A2 and that was the result. Now remember, this was during weapon transition time so everybody was still learning the new weapon and ammo. I knew before I went back to the ARMY that M855 ball would not stabilize in a 1/12" twist barrel like the M16A1. The new M16A2 required a heavier bullet to stabilize in the M16A2's 1/7" twist. And remember, in the late 80's, we thought our main threat was with the Soviets, and the new round(M855) was designed to punch thru body armour all the way out to 400-600 meters. My KD range targets were Soviet soldiers we called "Ivan's".
    Flash forward and here we have a new problem. Soldiers are now carrying a weapon more in tune with MOUT(the M4, a rehashed version of the old CAR15) and are using a round in them that is not optimal for the mission. You want stopping power from a M4 style weapon? Use M193 ball and don't look back. Works much better other than penetration. My $.02, FWIW
    Stay frosty, my Brothers
    Ofc.JL
    Governor's Twenty!
    "Cry Havoc and Let Slip....."
    "It's Official...52% of Americans are Dumb Asses!"

  4. #24
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    Opps! Meant to say "...somebody was trying to bang M855 ball thru a M16A1...." My bad, a stoopid typo!
    Thanx
    Ofc. JL
    Governor's Twenty!
    "Cry Havoc and Let Slip....."
    "It's Official...52% of Americans are Dumb Asses!"

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