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Thread: Steps to SBR with Trust?

  1. #11
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    Question for RetreatHell, you mentioned finding an engraver in the Houston area.

    I live in Houston and would love to know who this engraver is if you don't mind PM'ing the info.

    It would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #12
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    There have been many, many posts in this subforum along the lines of, “I don’t need no stinkin’ lawyer to form my NFA gun trust … I can make a trust with the $10 book I bought at an office supply store that is just a good as one made by one o’ them stinkin’ lawyers.”

    For those of you who haven’t yet formed a trust (or a corporation, which may a better alternative in some jurisdictions), here is why you hire a stinkin’ lawyer:

    Quote Originally Posted by RetreatHell View Post
    ALSO NOTE that my lawyer STRONGLY ADVISED AGAINST naming my trust something like, "Paul's Gun Trust," or "Paul's Firearms Trust." He said that, while not "illegal" by ANY means, naming your Living Trust with "guns" or "NFA" or Machine Guns" or "Firearms" in the name will make it VERY obvious to both BATFE and the NFA Branch of BATFE, and all law enforcement agencies in general, that you are only creating the Living Trust strictly for the procurement of Class III/NFA Firearms, and nothing else. He said that if, God forbid, you ever went to court or were ever in a situation where you had to defend yourself in anything even remotely resembling the law, that it just wouldn't look too good for you or your character if your Living Trust was named in such a direct and obvious way.
    Does the $10 book on how to form an el cheapo trust tell you this?

    What else does the $10 book not tell you?

  3. #13
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    No, but the el cheapo NFA dealer that I purchased my suppressor had actually mentioned it.

    Quote Originally Posted by exkc135driver View Post
    There have been many, many posts in this subforum along the lines of, “I don’t need no stinkin’ lawyer to form my NFA gun trust … I can make a trust with the $10 book I bought at an office supply store that is just a good as one made by one o’ them stinkin’ lawyers.”

    For those of you who haven’t yet formed a trust (or a corporation, which may a better alternative in some jurisdictions), here is why you hire a stinkin’ lawyer:



    Does the $10 book on how to form an el cheapo trust tell you this?

    What else does the $10 book not tell you?



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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetreatHell View Post

    2-I went to a lawyer who specializes, among many other things, in NFA law and routinely does Trusts just for guys wanting NFA items. He charged me $350, which is pretty damn steep for that service in my opinion, but I only need to do it ONCE and want it done flawlessly, so I feel that in the end it was money well spent.
    Doesn't sound like an unreasonable fee to me.

    ALSO NOTE that my lawyer STRONGLY ADVISED AGAINST naming my trust something like, "Paul's Gun Trust," or "Paul's Firearms Trust." He said that, while not "illegal" by ANY means, naming your Living Trust with "guns" or "NFA" or Machine Guns" or "Firearms" in the name will make it VERY obvious to both BATFE and the NFA Branch of BATFE, and all law enforcement agencies in general, that you are only creating the Living Trust strictly for the procurement of Class III/NFA Firearms, and nothing else. He said that if, God forbid, you ever went to court or were ever in a situation where you had to defend yourself in anything even remotely resembling the law, that it just wouldn't look too good for you or your character if your Living Trust was named in such a direct and obvious way.
    I disagree that this matters at all. The entity is just as valid or invalid regardless of its name, and if somebody wants to go after you for using it "solely" for holding NFA items, there are much better ways for them to do that than the name. All they'd need is the property schedule that shows you have nothing but guns in it, regardless of what its called. It would also be much more effective, if you're concerned about this, to put some other assets into it (like $10 in cash) to show that it's not "just" guns.

    I also see no reason why it's "wrong" or "suspicious" to create a trust solely to hold and direct the disposition of a particular class of assets. People do that all the time in other areas of estate planning.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrowne1 View Post
    I also see no reason why it's "wrong" or "suspicious" to create a trust solely to hold and direct the disposition of a particular class of assets. People do that all the time in other areas of estate planning.
    Exactly. That concern belongs in the tin foil hat section of ARFcom.

  6. #16
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    Question: It may vary by locale, but are Trusts on file with the state somehow? Are they public info, that could be searched and looked for? If it I think it's a very, VERY minor concern -- but more legit than the other one -- that someone could search for "gun trusts" and attempt to use that info to plan robberies.

    It may not work that way at all -- I work with right-of-way agents a lot and we often have to track down the landowners who hold property through a trust, but we find them through the land records and I don't know if there's a way to find the trusts otherwise.
    --Josh H.
    Zombies seek out and eat brains. Don't worry; you'll be safe if they attack.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post
    Question: It may vary by locale, but are Trusts on file with the state somehow?
    I think it depends on the state you live in. It's not the case in AZ.

  8. #18
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    I was told that the general rule is Trust information is not on file in most states which is one of the reasons that it was recommended over an LLC, Corp., etc.... In my situation the only people that know about mine is the dealer, BATFE and the person who notarized it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post
    Question: It may vary by locale, but are Trusts on file with the state somehow? Are they public info, that could be searched and looked for? If it I think it's a very, VERY minor concern -- but more legit than the other one -- that someone could search for "gun trusts" and attempt to use that info to plan robberies.

    It may not work that way at all -- I work with right-of-way agents a lot and we often have to track down the landowners who hold property through a trust, but we find them through the land records and I don't know if there's a way to find the trusts otherwise.
    Last edited by Iraqgunz; 05-22-09 at 10:09.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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  9. #19
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    These guys know gun trusts.

    http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/


    http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/c...nfa-trust.html
    Read post #7 ETA: in fact read the whole thread.
    Last edited by Rik; 05-22-09 at 10:45.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post
    Question: It may vary by locale, but are Trusts on file with the state somehow? Are they public info, that could be searched and looked for? If it I think it's a very, VERY minor concern -- but more legit than the other one -- that someone could search for "gun trusts" and attempt to use that info to plan robberies.
    I'm not aware of any state where a trust has to be filed with any court or state authority, though there may be a few. There may be reasons to do so in some unusual circumstances, or it could theoretically become part of a court file if it becomes part of discovery in a case, but that's pretty far-fetched - and you would know about it because you're the one who would have to produce it.

    Corps and LLCs are a different story. They and certain information about them are filed with the state corporation commission and the records are publicly accessible, usually online. That sometimes includes your name, addresses, etc., so more caution may be warranted in naming one of those entities.

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