Anyone with experience with Blackwater?

**6933** · 05-22-09, 21:29

Considering paying lots of $(to me) for Blackwater pistol and carbine training. Any one with experience with them? Quality? My research leads me to think they are as good as anyone. Noobie here. Any help appreciated.

**M4arc** · 05-22-09, 21:32

I have taken two courses with them and not only thought the instruction and training was great but also think the facility is the best place on earth.

We have several US Training employes here on the forum and they are a site sponsor as well. So in addition to the opinions of other forum members that have taken training there you can get any questions answered straight for the source!

**NCPatrolAR** · 05-22-09, 21:40

Great place to train with great training provided.

Check this link for reviews of classes forum members have taken there http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=95

**Don Robison** · 05-22-09, 22:08

They used to do a 6 day course(pistol, carbine, driving) for us we used as part of our spin up. The training, instructors and facilities were second to none IMHO.

**Robb Jensen** · 05-22-09, 23:26

I took the 5day Carbine Operators Course in 2006, it was fantastic.

**John_Wayne777** · 05-23-09, 00:23

Originally Posted by 6933

Considering paying lots of $(to me) for Blackwater pistol and carbine training. Any one with experience with them? Quality? My research leads me to think they are as good as anyone. Noobie here. Any help appreciated.

I've taken several courses with them and they've all been good, but the more recent courses were very good. The curriculum is strong and the instructors I've had have ranged from good to exceptional.

I personally think their 5 day courses are the perfect course for beginners who want to get started the right way. "As good as anyone" isn't really accurate. In the training business there are unfortunately a number of people who push absolutely goofy shit usually out of inexperience. When you train at USTC you won't be getting goofy shit, largely because their curriculum is developed and overseen by people who have a wealth of training and experience...people like Kyle Defoor. This makes them considerably better than some of the other training options out there.

It's often difficult for the beginner to sort out the good from the bad when it comes to training because when you are new you don't know enough to really get a good read on a particular instructor or school. The recommendation of people who have attended various courses are also sometimes of limited utility because folks who have only been to a class or two with one outfit with no other training have a very limited base of knowledge to draw from. Those of us on M4C who have trained at USTC/BW have generally trained with some of the best in the world, including Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Magpul Dynamics, and others time and space don't permit me to list, and we wouldn't hesitate to go back or to recommend USTC/BW to others. It's a superb facility with solid instruction. It's hard to go wrong with them. (It's hard to go wrong with any of the options I mentioned)

M4C is a bit of an embarrassment of riches when it comes to training...which is refreshing.

**John_Wayne777** · 05-23-09, 00:31

Originally Posted by gotm4

I took the 5day Carbine Operators Course in 2006, it was fantastic.

I've taken that course multiple times....and I can say without reservation that having Kyle Defoor as the lead instructor took it to a whole new level. Now that he's a big shot over at USTC/BW I can only assume that his influence has sweetened the deal on all the courses offered there.

**Don Robison** · 05-23-09, 00:51

Originally Posted by John_Wayne777

I've taken that course multiple times....and I can say without reservation that having Kyle Defoor as the lead instructor took it to a whole new level. Now that he's a big shot over at USTC/BW I can only assume that his influence has sweetened the deal on all the courses offered there.

+10 on Kyle
He was the lead instructor for one of my weeks up there and knows how to get the best out of a shooter.

**Iraqgunz** · 05-23-09, 09:32

I am a little biased when it comes to BW.

. My shipmates and I went there in 2004 prior to a deployment and I would say that the training we received was very beneficial to all involved, even us prior service guys that had more of a weapons background than others. The facilities are top notch and I enjoyed the times that I spent there.

You could spend the same or maybe less on some of the assclowns that are out there, but your money is better spent with them IMHO.