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Thread: KISS Rifles

  1. #61
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    Decode, please read the whole thread before responding. I was agreeing with F2stop, (again) not disagreeing. I want every enhancement I can take advantage of.

    The reason I want these enhancements is because I may have to use my carbine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Edwards View Post
    I agree, I just choose not to handicap myself. In another life, I went on one real world mission with out a light on my carbine in a time when it was available. If it is my choice, and now it is, it won't happen again.

    It is kinda like comparing techniques. I know plenty of guys who have out shot me with an inferior technique. However, that does not vindicate their technique, but there level of practice. Using the better technique, they would be even better then they already are.

    To me, that is the point. I have no doubt that there are many who can shoot faster and more accurately then I can while they use iron sights. However, unless there is some kind of physically limiting problem, they will be even better with an RDS. An easier gun to shoot is an easier gun to shoot. Standing off hand is one thing, shooting in an asymmetric position, in low light, in the rain, is totally different.

    I DO think that having a carbine, even if it is stock, is better then not having a carbine, so don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm just not down with "anti-elitism". At least the elitists are trying to head in the right direction.

    I was in a class a while ago with instructors that I have the up most respect for. My carbine, a 6920 with a T-1, troy BUIS, Vtac mount with a 6P, KAC rail, magpul butt stock and a Vtac sling. One of the instructors called my gun "KISS". The only difference in capability between my gun and his was the fact that I didn't have a PEQ on my carbine like he did. I'm sure he meant that my carbine has the bare minimum. I agree. The ONLY reason I don't have a PEQ on my carbines is due to the fact that I don't have NVGs. If I had NVGs, I'd have a PEQ also!
    Last edited by Matt Edwards; 05-26-09 at 11:29.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Edwards View Post
    Decode, please read the whole thread before responding. I was agreeing with F2stop, (again) not disagreeing. I want every enhancement I can take advantage of.

    The reason I want these enhancements is because I may have to use my carbine.
    Didn't see your other post, nor did I quite understand what you were saying in your last, my apologies.

    Seems like you and I are coming from the same place on this. I spent a good chunk of my first tour in Iraq without a RDS or white light on my M4. I very quickly learned just why these things are invaluable (especially the white light), and I question the competence/experience of anyone who suggests otherwise.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by decodeddiesel View Post
    Seems like you and I are coming from the same place on this. I very quickly learned just why these things are invaluable (especially the white light), and I question the competence/experience of anyone who suggests otherwise.
    I'm with you Bro.

  4. #64
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  5. #65
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    Thumbs down Where the hell is all the "combat"?

    xxxxx
    Last edited by PALADIN-hgwt; 07-07-09 at 22:55.
    Qui Me Tangit Paenitebit (he who touches me will repent)

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALADIN-hgwt View Post
    NOT ONE POST WAS TO DICTATE AGAINST GEARED UP RIFLES. The thread was titled KISS rifles. And examples of combat/defensive oriented rifles were claimed to be KISS. Obviously this view is subjective, and ones persons KISS is another persons "reduced capability" firearm.

    Seriously, are the geared up rifle disciples completely not understanding that for many, if not most gun owners, there is a strong orientation towards recreational and competition use? I own a pair of EOTechs, and three Aimpoints. But I only have one geared up M4 style rifle.

    Am I the only person here with more than one AR, and more that one upper per rifle? Holding to the strict doctrine of the combat oriented M4 is an arbitrary constraint of what can be deemed "effective". Bring your M4 out and shoot against my non-free floated obsolete 1/12 .gov profile barrel wearing a 10X Weaver at 200 or 300 yards. For that use, an M4 is "ineffective".

    Again, no one was dissing white lights, red dots, or adjustable stocks. On the other hand, remarks which show an apparent lack of understanding that other shooters have different uses for some of their weapons has been displayed.

    Paladin
    Read the thread. Have a nice day.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALADIN-hgwt View Post
    NOT ONE POST WAS TO DICTATE AGAINST GEARED UP RIFLES. that for many, if not most gun owners, there is a strong orientation towards recreational and competition use? Paladin

    The slant of this forum is decidedly towards serious use of the carbine.

    Bob

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALADIN-hgwt View Post
    NOT ONE POST WAS TO DICTATE AGAINST GEARED UP RIFLES. The thread was titled KISS rifles. And examples of combat/defensive oriented rifles were claimed to be KISS. Obviously this view is subjective, and ones persons KISS is another persons "reduced capability" firearm.

    Seriously, are the geared up rifle disciples completely not understanding that for many, if not most gun owners, there is a strong orientation towards recreational and competition use? I own a pair of EOTechs, and three Aimpoints. But I only have one geared up M4 style rifle.

    Am I the only person here with more than one AR, and more that one upper per rifle? Holding to the strict doctrine of the combat oriented M4 is an arbitrary constraint of what can be deemed "effective". Bring your M4 out and shoot against my non-free floated obsolete 1/12 .gov profile barrel wearing a 10X Weaver at 200 or 300 yards. For that use, an M4 is "ineffective".

    Again, no one was dissing white lights, red dots, or adjustable stocks. On the other hand, remarks which show an apparent lack of understanding that other shooters have different uses for some of their weapons has been displayed.

    Paladin
    you hit the nail right square on the head. this thread should not have sparked any negativity at all.

    my "rifle" submission, for instance- nostalgia, as i said. reduced capability? yes. so what? they're fun. i'm gonna love my ar15a2 build.. i haven't held an A2 since about 2004 and i'm sure it'll bring back memories galore and be damn fun to shoot. then i'll bring it home, clean the SHIT out of it (also for nostalgia) and put it in the safe next to my aimpoint/larue/VFG/vltor/sopmod/magpul/etc-soaked carbines.

    Quote Originally Posted by R Moran View Post
    The slant of this forum is decidedly towards serious use of the carbine.

    Bob
    also true- the beauty of this site, in fact. and that's why, on the other hand, we need to just kind of ignore it when people rip on us for our "reduced capability" fun-guns.

  9. #69
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    Um, unless somehow my comments are being taken WAY out of context I said nothing negative about using a "reduced capability rifle" in a recreational manor.

    I have a barebones AK-101 clone that will never wear a RDS or light. It is fun and enjoyable at the range. I would never in a second somehow confuse this simplicity and "fun factor" with real world applicability. This is where the line is.

  10. #70
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    My KISS rifle. Its just a plinker for me as I prefer optics and lights. The barrel is a 1/9 government profile with chrome lining.
    Pat

    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 05-27-09 at 01:22.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
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