M193 in the leg.

**sjc3081** · 05-26-09, 15:18

I regularly shoot deer with 165gr 30 cal PSPBT bullets at 2,800fps. Rib bones adjacent to impact, remain intact. Ribs and leg bones stuck by the bullet shatter and send bone fragment and bullet fragments as secondary projectiles. I get 30cal entrance wounds and 1.5" exit wounds at contact distances less than 100 yards.

**Iraqgunz** · 05-26-09, 15:44

That's what I was thinking as well. I'd be shocked if an M193 round did that much damage.

Originally Posted by Iraq Ninja

Actually, it looks worse than it really was since this is after the docs cleaned the wound.

I am concerned people are looking at these pics and assuming that the bullet did all of this and getting a hard on at all the apparent damage from a 5.56.

**Shawn Dodson** · 05-26-09, 18:05

Dr. Fackler seems to think that such injuries are not possible.

Fackler once remarked in one of his papers that, with a carefully placed thigh shot, he was able to predictably fracture swine femur just by the temporary cavity produced by M193. He also remarked that, although the potential existed for the temporary cavity to fracture large bones, in actual experience it was rare to happen.

In the X-ray shows fragments that look like bone fragments.

They appear to be lead fragments to me as their white contrast suggests greater density than bone. Except for one large fragment I don't see any small bone fragments at all. I do, however, see what appears to be possible evidence of a grazing impact (missing bone in the shape of a half circle on the fragment {bottom pic} and the lower half of the femur {top pic}?) but I don't have much confidence in what think I see. The lack of small bone fragments shattered by an impacting bullet suggests to me that the femur wasn't hit.

Cheers!

**DBR** · 05-26-09, 18:28

Fragments look like lead to me. Looks like the bullet might have grazed the bone and fragmented right next to it possibly causing the bone to fracture at the notch the grazing contact made.

**Shawn Dodson** · 05-26-09, 18:30

I regularly shoot deer with 165gr 30 cal PSPBT bullets at 2,800fps. Rib bones adjacent to impact, remain intact.

The location of maximum temporary cavity occurs at a penetration depth farther along the wound track than where the ribs are located.

**Thomas M-4** · 05-26-09, 18:54

Originally Posted by Shawn Dodson

The location of maximum temporary cavity occurs at a penetration depth farther along the wound track than where the ribs are located.

I shot a deer broad side 7mm rem magnum 120 grain 3100-3200 fps
bullets entrance wound passed between 2 ribs no damage to the ribs.
Exit wound little smaller than a golf ball it did break 2 ribs but the bullet was fully expanded.

**Derek_Connor** · 05-26-09, 19:03

not a radiologist or an MD, i do look at XRAYs every day.

Looks like fragments to me. It'd be nice to see the A/P scan a little more zoomed out..

**prairiefire** · 05-28-09, 05:21

Hi guys! I'm the orthopedic surgeon who handled this case, and these are the facts:

Victim was shot with a 20-inch barreled M16A1 at 5-10 meters distance by cop. Victim claims a deliberate shot, cop claims an accident. Whatever.

Spent brass casing brought in by investigating cops show the headstamp "WCC 76".
Remaining 24 rounds of ammo in magazine showed all to be headstamped either "WCC 76" or "WCC 77".

Based on x-rays taken, IMHO the bullet did NOT hit the femur. These cases are fairly common here, since our cops use M16s and m193 ammo exclusively. Had the bullet hit the femur, the fracture pattern would be very different, would exhibit severe comminution usually for a length of up to 2 to 4 inches of the bone. Methinks the temporary cavitation was strong enough to break the femur by itself. We KNOW how a bone that is hit squarely by a high-velocity bullet looks like.

The fragments you see in the xrays are all metallic, as the whiteness is much greater than that of the bone. Bullet fragments could be seen ON the wound itself, as silvery specks. The xrays show fragments on one side only of the thigh, which makes me think that the bullet fragmented after @ 4 inches of penetration.

The pics you see of the wound shows it as it arrived in the E.R.. NO manipulation of the wound was done prior to the picture-taking. No probing, no extension of the wound. Wound is as seen when victim arrived.

On surgery, empty cavity in the anterior thigh was around 4x4 inches wide. Leg was saved, since the neurovascular structures were not hit, though thigh circumference was much narrower post-op, as alot of devitalized muscle had to be removed.

Wounds this severe on the extremities are seen fairly commonly here, and when we see one like this, we immediately thinks " ah, another m16 hit...", and invariably, we are correct. Torso hits usually result in victims dead as they arrive in the E.R., or die soon after. Autopsies invariably reveal large cavities when bullets fragmented, especially when the liver, intestines, and muscle are hit.

I was able to request one cartridge from the magazine involved, and chronographed it at the range. M.V. was 3227 fps 10 feet from the muzzle.

Our cops and soldiers have the highest regard for this ammo, be it headstamped WCC, RPA, and BMP ( the last two being the locally manufactured M193).
Even being more than 30 years old, those WCC ammo keeps on rockin'. Based on the cases I have seen, I am not surprised.