Slide release or slide grab???

**5pt56** · 05-27-09, 03:20

Utilizing the entire slide and grabbing it on the etching toward the rear is considered a combat loading procedure and is best used under intense combat situations. This should be practiced by individuals that have not been in a combat environment previously and is the safest way to ensure a positive and quick reload. Once an individual has 'real world" shooting experience then they can have a preference of "how" to reload a sidearm, until then I would recommend that they utilize the combat reload because it has been "tried and true" in many real world situations.

**rob_s** · 05-27-09, 05:54

When I was shooting 1911s full time I used my support hand thumb to hit the slide stop every time. I've never been in a gunfight, but I don't recall ever having trouble with it in matches and classes and the like.

Now that I'm shooting the Glock, I'm racking the slide by grabbing it at the rear with the heel of my palm on the inboard side of the serrations, my four fingers on the outboard side, pulling the slide to the rear and continuing to move my hand rearward to slap my shoulder, thereby pretty well eliminating the risk of riding the slide forward. I tried the G34 slide stop installed on my G19 but coming from the 1911 I found that I wanted to ride it with my thumb which then would prevent the slide from locking to the rear so I got rid of it.

I don't quibble with anyone who does it either way. I don't think there's any one right answer and each shooter has to figure out what works best for them with their chosen (or given) platform.

**the1911fan** · 05-27-09, 06:26

Originally Posted by Adam

Pulling the trigger requires more fine motor skills then pushing the slide release down.

As well as activating the magazine release. If your fine motor skills are gone that empty mag is staying in the gun or so we're led to believe

**Littlebear** · 05-27-09, 07:10

I am of the "racking the slide" persuation, but this is what I have done for years.
It does not seem to be a conscious decision anymore; it just flows with the other motions.

**John_Wayne777** · 05-27-09, 07:34

Originally Posted by 5pt56

Utilizing the entire slide and grabbing it on the etching toward the rear is considered a combat loading procedure and is best used under intense combat situations. This should be practiced by individuals that have not been in a combat environment previously and is the safest way to ensure a positive and quick reload. Once an individual has 'real world" shooting experience then they can have a preference of "how" to reload a sidearm, until then I would recommend that they utilize the combat reload because it has been "tried and true" in many real world situations.

I've heard many a variation on the theme of slide release vs. overhand before, but this is the first time I've heard that one should use the overhand method until they've been in a gunfight.

EDIT -- Am I experiencing deja vu, or was this discussion already underway?

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31694

**John_Wayne777** · 05-27-09, 08:05

Originally Posted by Alaskapopo

You do lose fine motor skills under stress that is a fact. Its an adrenaline response. Your body takes blood from your extremities and brings it to the core. You experience auditory exclusion and tunnel vision. Your dexterity also goes down hill. The good news is that training can lessen the effects of this as you become less stressed and get less adrenalin the more used to a situation you become. That is one of the reason seasoned combat vets do better than those that are not. They don't get stressed to the same level.

While that's true, it's also fair to point out that combat vets were not at one time combat vets. They had to go through their first fight and yet in that first fight were carried through by the training they had done prior to the first fight.

I have tried to use the slide stop and I have found that I don't always hit it reliably.

That's the key to this whole deal. There is no single absolute when it comes to this question. The *BEST* procedure for each individual depends on their physiology, equipment, and training. Someone who is issued an M9 or a S&W 5906 may find that when they use the overhand method they accidentally engage the safety, thus dedicating time and training to learning how to hit the slide release reliably under stress would be a good investment of their time. Someone with big hands who is issued a Sig P22X may find that their natural grip renders the slide release useless so they will have to train to get used to not having the slide lock back and to using the overhand method to charge the weapon.

Whatever their situation, if someone trains themselves properly odds are that they are going to be able to repeat that action under stress. Pulling the trigger and ejecting the magazine of a semi-auto handgun are fine motor skills, but we all seem to agree that people will be able to perform those functions under stress. Using the slide release is no different provided the factors I mentioned earlier are figured in.

As for the mediocre shooters using fighting as an excuse. I have seen a lot of excellent shooters who have survived and won gun fights who disagree with you.

Todd is 100% right. There are a number of people out there who label X or Y as a "fighting" technique when in reality they have no real basis to do so. There are people out there proclaiming that a particular sighting system for handguns is a "fighting" sight and is thus beyond measurement through square range drills and a timer. The claim is that while many people find that the sighting system sucks on drills, were the fight to be real some sort of magical fairy dust gets sprinkled on that front sight and it becomes the most awesomest gunfighting tool in the world.

While I've never been in a gunfight with that sighting system, I think I'm fairly safe in calling shenanigans on those sorts of claims.

There is such a thing as gamer techniques that don't work in the real world...timing shots while SOM to be taken in the brief moment when both feet are on the ground, etc...but hitting the slide release doesn't qualify for that title. I can point to a number of people who have been in actual gunfights who had no trouble using the slide release, and a number of highly regarded instructors who teach the slide release (when the factors mentioned earlier are considered) to students.

People should ultimately put forth the effort to find out what works best for their situation and then should train on it until they become proficient....and then they should train some more. Todd's point is that many do not go through this process and merely default to the lowest common denominator while claiming that they are on some sort of higher tactical plane than everyone else. I've seen this same mindset at work with "gunfight accuracy", speed reloads, you name it.

I've been lectured on "combat accuracy" by an individual who can barely manage to put a pattern you need a yardstick to measure on a stationary target at 7 yards. I've been lectured on weapon manipulations by somebody whose reloads were so slow you could measure them with a sun dial. They were all about "combat", you see, so their awesomeness could not be truly appreciated unless there was another guy shooting at them. THEN I'd be able to see just what skilled killers they were. They held the belief that when being shot at their performance would somehow be better. I hold the belief that these individuals have put forth very little effort to train or to learn and yet believe they have the whole gunfighting thing figured out. This, in my belief system, qualifies them as assclowns. These are the sorts of people who show up on the internet and hammer these sorts of issues the hardest. Their entire vision of themselves is based on a belief system, not experience. When that belief system is challenged they react very poorly because if they were proven wrong it would require them to A. Admit that they don't know everything and B. take some sort of remedial action.

This stands in stark contrast to what you hear and see from individuals who genuinely qualify as gunfighters.

**JiMfraRED1911** · 05-27-09, 08:08

I thumb the slide stop (support hand after mag insertion) on my Springfield 1911. I believe that method is taught by most 1911 aficionados. Works for me, but I've never been in a gunfight.