Anyone else notice that .223 precision AR's are more accurate than .308 Precision AR.

[Alaskapopo]

This is my Ga Precision AR10. So far it has averaged 1.15 moa for 5 shot groups since I have started to keep track. My .223 Larue has averaged .75 moa with 5 shot groups. Here are some pics. Anyone else notice that the .308 is just not as accurate in the AR platform vs the .223 or is it just me.








Now my larue does much better.







How does the 6.8 compare in an AR to the .223 and .308 for accuracy. In bolt actions do you see the same thing or is the .308 equal to or better than a .223 bolt?

Pat

[noone]

It sure seems to be the case with your two rifles. However I don't think I have seen enough data yet to make a generalization that all 223/308 rifles of this type will have the same reaction.

But somehow, I suspect it will eventually be shown that the 223/5.56 is more accurate. One big reason I think this will be the case is because the AR-15 system was designed as a 223/5.56 caliber rifle. Making the rifle in 308 was an afterthought. I still think I would like more data before I make a generalization though.

That being said though, some amazing groups are being turned in by 6.5 Grendel shooters. But this case is an offshoot of some famous benchrest cartridges, and is (like the 223/5.56) a small capacity cartridge. But your question was about the 223/308, not things like 6.5 Grendel/338 Federal or whatever else..

[Alaskapopo]

It sure seems to be the case with your two rifles. However I don't think I have seen enough data yet to make a generalization that all 223/308 rifles of this type will have the same reaction.

But somehow, I suspect it will eventually be shown that the 223/5.56 is more accurate. One big reason I think this will be the case is because the AR-15 system was designed as a 223/5.56 caliber rifle. Making the rifle in 308 was an afterthought. I still think I would like more data before I make a generalization though.

That being said though, some amazing groups are being turned in by 6.5 Grendel shooters. But this case is an offshoot of some famous benchrest cartridges, and is (like the 223/5.56) a small capacity cartridge. But your question was about the 223/308, not things like 6.5 Grendel/338 Federal or whatever else..

Thanks for your input. I am considering buying a 6.8 precision upper. Not sure about the Grendel. Good round just worried about reliability in the AR platform.

[SkiDevil]

Hey Pat,
I would have to agree with NOONE that it is very difficult to say across the board that .223 is more accurate than .308 generally. But, a case could be made that simply because you (as the shooter) are dealing with a much lighter recoiling rifle and a lighter weapon that the .223/ 5.56 will be easier to shoot.

My personal experience is limited to AR10 and DPMS rifles. I thought that both of the rifles were very accurate. But not as accurate as some .223/ 5.56 rifles that I have shot.

As for bolt guns, I have a fair amount of experience with both calibers in this platform and can say that at least to a couple hundred yards the .223 has definitely been more accurate (in precision rifles) than the .308 (in my experience). But, once the distance increases and wind becomes more of a factor the .308 seems to buck the wind much better.

6.5 Gredel is supposed to be an awesome round (no experience with it myself) just keep hearing/ reading how great it is, But what would ammo availability be like?

I am planning on building a precision AR myself and considered a .308 or 6.8 but I believe that I will end up going with the .223/ 5.56 because of the availability of ammo/ mags (already have both in quantity). 6.8 ammo is not very easy to find. -But if you are going to reload in may not be a factor.

My Reasons for .223/ 5.56; The range where I shoot is only 300 Yards max., ammo availability, rifle will not be used for hunting/ game, and I enjoy shooting the smaller caliber.

SkiDevil

P.S. Those are two very nice rigs. How long was the wait for the GA Precision rifle? I have seen a couple of their .223 rifles. I was impressed.

[CC556]

It sure seems to be the case with your two rifles. However I don't think I have seen enough data yet to make a generalization that all 223/308 rifles of this type will have the same reaction.

But somehow, I suspect it will eventually be shown that the 223/5.56 is more accurate. One big reason I think this will be the case is because the AR-15 system was designed as a 223/5.56 caliber rifle. Making the rifle in 308 was an afterthought. I still think I would like more data before I make a generalization though.

That being said though, some amazing groups are being turned in by 6.5 Grendel shooters. But this case is an offshoot of some famous benchrest cartridges, and is (like the 223/5.56) a small capacity cartridge. But your question was about the 223/308, not things like 6.5 Grendel/338 Federal or whatever else..

The AR-15 was actually based on the earlier AR-10 design.

[noone]

I have been waiting for a DPMS rifle since ordering one on about 01 August 2008. They keep pushing the delivery date further away.

My 6.5 Grendel is still going through the load development process. Best groups so far were 7/8 and 1 inch at 200 yards with the Hornady Amax bullet. One BIG problem with the Grendel is brass. It is either hard to find, or costs $104.00 per hundred at Midway because they are the only place that actually has any in stock. Other vendors advertise a lower price, but don't actually have any brass to deliver. Compare that to new 223 brass from someone like Winchester for about $35.00 per hundred (retail).

But the Grendel will remain supersonic to about 1100-1300 yards with the right load.

My Grendel is as reliable as any AR-15 I have as long as I use good magazines...my AR's are the same, so there is no criticism there.

For bucking wind, my experience is that best to worst is; 6.5 Grendel, 308, 223. So I guess you have to decide if you want accuracy, wind bucking ability, cheap brass, or energy on target. For energy on target, the 308 wins by a tremendous margin.

Another consideration is whether you want the rifle for simple match shooting, or as a true fighting weapon, and the distance at which you expect to engage. For real world fighting, 300 yards and under I would probably pick a 223. Over 600 yards I would pick a 308.

Ammo supply problems would make me think long and hard about picking the Grendel for a first choice fighting weapon. Other logistical problems like replacement bolts, magazines and so on also need to be considered.

But again, your question was about accuracy of 223/308. My experience mirrors others with the 223 being easier to shoot accurately (under 300 yards).

[TacticalIntervention]

No doubt the 308 actions are more violent and cause more damage during feeding than a 5.56.

As to the AR10, I have one built a few years ago and it shoots far better than 1 moa. Its a .50-75 moa semi. Now I did smooth the feedramp because some of my Armalite early mags where beating up the tips of the ammo and causing problems. The smoothing of feedramp and matching is feed area like you do on a 1911 made a difference here so you might want to try that.

[Saginaw79]

Id say thats because .223 is a pretty flat shooting round out a ways

[TacticalIntervention]

Sag, no offense but flat shooting does not translate to accuracy. 55 grain 5.56 at 500 plus yards stinks for accuracy.

By the way the 308 168 and 5.56 77 grain have pretty much same ballistic curve to 600 yards.

[Alaskapopo]

Sag, no offense but flat shooting does not translate to accuracy. 55 grain 5.56 at 500 plus yards stinks for accuracy.

By the way the 308 168 and 5.56 77 grain have pretty much same ballistic curve to 600 yards.

Thanks for the information. I will have to check the feed ramps. Also its good to know the heavy .223's are that close to the .308 in trajectory. I took both guns out again yesterday. Here are some of my better groups with each.
5 shot 308 groups (two best)



Best .223 groups 10 shot and 5 shot