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Member
We recently had a seminar with Paul Castle from Sabre Tactical
http://www.sabretactical.com/index.html
Very interesting stuff. His system really changes the way you aim and shoot a handgun. I would like to know if anyone has experience with Paul, his CAR system, or has any opinions on the training?
Thanks.
Banned
never trust a trainer with a foreign accent.
I took one of his 3-day seminars years ago.
The basic premiss of the system is that if you are really, really close to your target and you have a really, really big target and don't care where you hit it, you can pull the trigger really fast. C.A.R. then provides a complicated series of stances and methods depending on whether you're at contact distance, out to 3 yards, out to 7 yards, out to 15 yards, or beyond 15 yards. I may be getting the numbers wrong, but there are literally four or five different stance variations between point blank and 15yd.
Except for the contact distance stuff -- which assumes you will be able to maintain a solid, upright position without much dynamic movement needed -- the shooting technique is all about doing more or less the exact opposite of what we know people will do under stress. You purposely aim with your non-dominant eye (except for cross-dominant people), take up a grip position which is complicated and not at all bilateral (meaning two sides of your body need to operate completely differently), etc.
Because so much of the C.A.R. program is taught shooting at humongous targets from 3yd and within, students shoot incredibly fast ... faster than most of them ever have before. I remember one drill in which the only goal was to pull the trigger at least five times per second. Since so many people associated speed with skill, it feels tactical.
There were also weird techniques for a lot of other things (like one-handed manipulations using your chest as a 'table' to work on) and then all the silly drills like assembling and disassembling your pistol while doing situps.
Yes, while doing situps. Didn't make that up. Promise.
It's flashy and different and has that cult-esque sense of being "in the know" if you drink the kool-aid. But from the standpoint of delivering actually effective fire in a dynamic situation it's certainly no better than more traditional approaches and in many ways it's worse.
Member
Thanks Todd, i was hoping you would chime in. You touched on a lot of the points i was skeptic about.
Member
I attended a two-day seminar that Castle put on for instructors free of charge several years ago. He's a good guy and a dynamic instructor. I think he believes in what he is teaching.
That said, most of the CAR techniques did not seem like they would work in the real world. We didn't adopt many techniques from the program.
Todd's right about the sit-ups. He didn't do that with us, but one of the cable stations did a couple of reality shows centering on him training variois agencies, I saw it on one of the episodes.
Senior Member
I once watched a local "CAR Instructor" teaching a student at my club's Indoor Range. At about 5-yards, I watched them miss the target and repeatedly hit the range's ceiling instead.
I was not impressed!!
We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I
Member
Same guy?
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/210396
ETA: It is.Roanoke law enforcement banned from county firing range
Roanoke's officers lost access to the facility following a controversial sniper training exercise.
By Amanda Codispoti | The Roanoke Times
Roanoke law enforcement officers have lost their rights to the county-owned firing range and driving track over concerns about last fall's controversial sniper training, officials said Wednesday.
The announcement was the result of talks that followed the October training session at the Dixie Caverns range, which involved putting officers downrange during live-fire exercises.
The city's last day at the range was Tuesday.
County officials have said that Roanoke Sheriff Octavia Johnson sanctioned the training over their objections. Johnson has said the training was approved by the board of the Regional Firearms Range, which consists of two representatives from each locality. The representative from the county police department has said that he and the county sheriff's representative voted against the training.
Assistant county administrator John Chambliss notified the city in March of the county's intention to terminate the agreement. The two localities had shared the range and track for a decade.
In a letter to Roanoke City Manager Darlene Burcham, Chambliss wrote that "the continued disregard for safety and resulting burden of liability resting upon the County, do not allow this program to continue."
He was referring to the voluntary training session, in which officers took turns standing next to a target while another officer, a football field away, took aim and fired. No one was injured.
The instructor, Paul Castle, has defended the practice, saying that the situations a sniper encounters can't be simulated with a paper target.
Six agencies from throughout Virginia, including the city police department and sheriff's office, participated.
Johnson, when pressed on the issue during an April news conference, said that the sheriff's office would no longer take part in such training and acknowledged that it violated department policy.
County officials also were concerned that when they tried to look at recordings from the surveillance cameras at the shooting range, they discovered that the cameras had been turned toward the sky or disconnected. They also had been told about an instance in which two officers were seen firing at the berm that separates two parts of the shooting range.
County officials said at the time that they wanted to end the agreement to share the facilities, but they agreed to talk matters over with Burcham. They did not reach a compromise, county administrator Clay Goodman said Wednesday.
"We felt that at this time we needed to move in a different direction," he said.
The county will reimburse the city $195,204 for the money it spent to help build and maintain the facilities.
Roanoke officers will use the Norfolk Southern shooting range in Northwest Roanoke, police spokeswoman Aisha Johnson said. The department is still looking for a driving track.
The spokeswoman for the city sheriff's office could not be reached.
The Dixie Caverns training center will be closed beginning Monday for repairs, Goodman said. He did not know how extensive the repairs would be or how long they would take.
When it reopens, the board of supervisors will decide whether the training center can be used by other localities on a short-term, contractual basis, Goodman said.
"I believe in the regional approach to things," he said. "We all have to do things differently than we did 10 years ago."
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/...noke/wb/200598
The instructor, Paul Castle, runs Sabre Tactical Training Resource and Research, which is based in Nashville, Tenn.
He defended the sniper exercise, saying that the situations a sniper encounters cannot be simulated with a paper target.
"You have to practice for the situation you are going to be in," he said. "We don't want them second-guessing themselves."
He disputed details of the training, saying that the officers shot from 50 yards away, not 100 yards, and that their partners were standing 5 feet from the target, not 2. The exercise took place on the third day of classes, after participants had successfully hit a dime from 50 yards and a quarter from 100 yards, he said.
"I stand by what I did, and I'll do it again in the next class if it is appropriate," Castle said, adding that it is a standard practice in sniper training.
Last edited by subzero; 07-02-09 at 13:55.
Principles matter.
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Sounds like it to me...
Senior Member
Sounds like a bunch of B.S. to me....
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Ok, I watched the shooting videos on that page......Originally Posted by beau1911
The word that instantly leaped to mind upon viewing them was "Goofy".
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