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Thread: Revocable Trust and Texas

  1. #21
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    I don't expect to ever live in the State I am currently in, again, so I don't want to continue with the LLC here. I have asked for a legal opinion on whether the NFA items, which are property of the "ABC of State #2, LLC," would transfer like any other assets if my other LLC, "ABC of State #1, LLC" were to buy it out and then close operations in State #2. I have not yet gotten a definitive answer on the topic from legal counsel, as I was told there are new laws that may affect what would have been the solution in the past. Essentially, it is looking like I will have to pay for new stamps to move the LLC's assets to a trust. Thanks.
    Last edited by usmc51; 07-08-09 at 21:38.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc51 View Post
    Can you shed any light on this document? I am anticipating a move to a different State and will need to move my NFA items owned by my LLC either to another LLC in that State, or, preferably, to a trust. If there is a better way to do it than having to pay for new tax stamps, I'm interested. Thanks.
    It's a rather simple document but it is based on the assumption that YOU, not an LLC or Corp., owned the items directly. This is based in trust law as trusts are designed for individuals to pass assets into for legal/estate/etc. reasons. I do not believe that this would work for transferring into a trust from an LLC based on something that my attorney said but, as I am not an attorney, I suggest that you get appropriate legal counsel on this.

    If you have to close out your LLC as you mentioned in another post, create the trust, and get new stamps you do not need this document anyway as your trust will need to be created first and it will be the entity that you transfer the items to on the new stamps.

    I will go ahead and post what I can of the transfer of assests form this evening for those who need/want it. I may not legally be able to post the exact text as some parts of my trust are based on copyrighted material.

  3. #23
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    I just bought my AAC M4-2000 supp a couple of weeks ago at Tactical Firearms here in Katy, Tx and they did all the Trust paperwork for me as part of the purchase.
    They gave me a great price on it as well!

    Just waiting to receive my tax stamp from the BATF.
    Beautiful wife & kids, house, and my toys.......what else can a guy ask for?

  4. #24
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    IG, not sure if you have found a dealer yet for your buddy. If you haven't here is a Dallas dealer.

    http://www.dallassubguns.com/Site/Welcome.html
    "In a nut shell, if it ever goes to Civil War, I'm afraid I'll be in the middle 70%, shooting at both sides" — 26 Inf


    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." — CNN's Don Lemon 10/30/18

  5. #25
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    I have passed on all the previous info. It's up to him now. I'll pass this on as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    IG, not sure if you have found a dealer yet for your buddy. If you haven't here is a Dallas dealer.

    http://www.dallassubguns.com/Site/Welcome.html



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  6. #26
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    Feel free to have him give me a call.

    I can anwer his questions.

    Sean Cody
    Attorney
    www.TexasGunTrust.com

    281.451.4175
    Providing NFA Trust Services to Texas Citizens

    www.AtomicLabRat.com

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SC-Texas View Post
    Feel free to have him give me a call

    Sean Cody
    Attorney
    www.TexasGunTrust.com

    281.451.4175
    My sister is an attorney with her own practice focusing on estate planning, she understands trusts. She recommended that I hire a specialist that understands BATFE trust requirements. Especially since I would be (and have) spending many $K on multiple NFA purchases.

    I hired Sean Cody. Simple and easy. You get what you pay for. I wanted peace of mind so I paid for it.

    Good luck
    RFA
    Last edited by Ready.Fire.Aim; 07-06-11 at 23:21.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdmiller View Post
    What adh says is true and can be done. The problem comes from what the IRS likes to call "comingling of assets". If a Trust is used to get ATF approval for a NFA item but you, as an individual write the check, do you own it or the Trust?

    I spent hours going over these issues with my Trust attorney (thank goodness for flat rate billing) just because my friend the corporate lawyer (actual specialty is electronic comerce and digital security) found several instances of ATF requiring individuals to forfeit items to ATF that had been approved by ATF on standard Trust paperwork because ATF agents subsequently found something about the way the were paid for questionable and decided that the individual had bought the item as opposed to the Trust which made it illegal for the individual to possess even though the individual was a Trustee of the Trust.

    I know this sounds really nit-picking, stupid and against all common sense but this is the ATF and Federal regulations/interpretations of regulations that we are talking about.

    Do I think that they will go after someone for a single item? Probably not. But I am not willing to save a few hundred dollars and have there be ANY possibility that ATF might decide that I have to forfeit my LMT lower, my AKS-74S, my can, etc. to them. I would rather spend a few hundred to be safe than risk thousands and the legal expenses that go along with ATF crawling into your life. I know a regular FFL at my gun club that spent almost $8000 in legal fees to have the ATF finally agree that he did nothing wrong and drop the case against him. And don't think that for one second they will pay you back for your expenses.

    If you do decide to use a Trust document that is not specific to NFA items, please at least follow the three main, DO NOT VIOLATE rules that my attorney gave me:

    1. Do NOT use the Trust to hold anything other than NFA items.
    2. The Trust MUST be the purchaser of all items. (There is a way around this for preexisting items by use of a legal document to officially transfer ownership to the Trust.) Open a new bank account that is used ONLY for NFA purchases and only transfer money into it to make NFA and NFA related purchases. (This will be a business account. Mine is with Bank of America so I can do immediate electronic fund transfers from my regular checking account when necessary. This Account gives me checking and a debit card. Using the debit card for ammo, magazines, etc. at least once a month allows me to avoid the monthly fee for the account.)
    3. NEVER pay cash for an NFA item! You absolutely need the proof of payment method paper trail in case there is ever any question.


    I know this may sound like overkill but, as an old First Sergeant of mine once told me, the object is not to survive getting hit but to never get hit in the first place.
    Here's what I got:

    My question:

    I've done quite a bit of research, and being new to NFA, I want to separate fact from myth. I've heard the same thing about a bank account, at least as far as paying for the weapons themselves, as well as tax stamps on my Form 1's and 4's. What is your best advice in the interest of avoiding litigation for myself, as well as my family and colleague.

    My trust attorney's reply:

    As far as the checks go it really doesn't matter. Most everyone uses personal checks even when the trust is buying. Technically it is the seller (not the buyer as most people think) who is supposed to pay the tax anyway (of course we know it doesn't work like that in reality) so the ATF doesn't care as long as they get paid. It is highly unlikey there will be litigation over your trust because you control everything and can change it at any time. My best advice to avoid litigation when it comes to guns generally is to use them safely and have anyone else you let use the guns to the same.
    --------------

    Basically, to sum it up, what it sounds like is the fact that even though "you" are paying for the NFA item, you are acting as an agent for "the trust". Basically, to put it simply, it's similar to you giving someone power of attorney. They act as an agent to conduct business for you in your absence. With an NFA trust, you are acting as an agent for the trust, because the trust obviously can't physically represent itself. If you are the primary trustee, you have full rights to conduct business on behalf of your trust.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdmiller View Post
    What adh says is true and can be done. The problem comes from what the IRS likes to call "comingling of assets". If a Trust is used to get ATF approval for a NFA item but you, as an individual write the check, do you own it or the Trust?

    I spent hours going over these issues with my Trust attorney (thank goodness for flat rate billing) just because my friend the corporate lawyer (actual specialty is electronic comerce and digital security) found several instances of ATF requiring individuals to forfeit items to ATF that had been approved by ATF on standard Trust paperwork because ATF agents subsequently found something about the way the were paid for questionable and decided that the individual had bought the item as opposed to the Trust which made it illegal for the individual to possess even though the individual was a Trustee of the Trust.

    I know this sounds really nit-picking, stupid and against all common sense but this is the ATF and Federal regulations/interpretations of regulations that we are talking about.

    Do I think that they will go after someone for a single item? Probably not. But I am not willing to save a few hundred dollars and have there be ANY possibility that ATF might decide that I have to forfeit my LMT lower, my AKS-74S, my can, etc. to them. I would rather spend a few hundred to be safe than risk thousands and the legal expenses that go along with ATF crawling into your life. I know a regular FFL at my gun club that spent almost $8000 in legal fees to have the ATF finally agree that he did nothing wrong and drop the case against him. And don't think that for one second they will pay you back for your expenses.

    If you do decide to use a Trust document that is not specific to NFA items, please at least follow the three main, DO NOT VIOLATE rules that my attorney gave me:

    1. Do NOT use the Trust to hold anything other than NFA items.
    2. The Trust MUST be the purchaser of all items. (There is a way around this for preexisting items by use of a legal document to officially transfer ownership to the Trust.) Open a new bank account that is used ONLY for NFA purchases and only transfer money into it to make NFA and NFA related purchases. (This will be a business account. Mine is with Bank of America so I can do immediate electronic fund transfers from my regular checking account when necessary. This Account gives me checking and a debit card. Using the debit card for ammo, magazines, etc. at least once a month allows me to avoid the monthly fee for the account.)
    3. NEVER pay cash for an NFA item! You absolutely need the proof of payment method paper trail in case there is ever any question.


    I know this may sound like overkill but, as an old First Sergeant of mine once told me, the object is not to survive getting hit but to never get hit in the first place.

    This is exactly right.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc51 View Post


    Can you shed any light on this document? I am anticipating a move to a different State and will need to move my NFA items owned by my LLC either to another LLC in that State, or, preferably, to a trust. If there is a better way to do it than having to pay for new tax stamps, I'm interested. Thanks.


    It would be easier to leave the LLC intact in the home state and do interstate transport forms (Form 20s) every year for the items you want to take with you.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

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