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Thread: What is a good entry level M4 style carbine?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulinski
    Grant

    What qualifies Stag as a low end AR. Is it the the lower quality of the firearm in general? Lack of 4150 steel, 1/7 barrels and M4 cuts improperly staked gas keys? Please shed more light on this issue?

    In their defence I own two Stags and well as LMT. They work great with all kinds of ammo, accurate as any OTS chrome lined barrels, millspec buffer tube and great fit and finish.

    I guess the term low quality is a poor choice on my part. I should have used the term low cost (my bad).

    Stag uses 4140 steel, Rifle barrel extension, A4 receriver and non tested bolts. This puts it below LMT that uses better steel and HPT/MP tests everything.

    The fit and finish of the Stag's if very nice, but you have to dive into the internal specs to figure out why it is cheaper.


    C4

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alien319
    The main use would be defense and a little sport shooting. The range where I go currently only goes out to 200 yards which is not a great distance as you all know. So I am thinking a 16 inch barrel shall be sufficient. I just want an affordable but accurate carbine. I'm not worried about adaptibility because all of them can be adaptable to any situation. Hope this helps AR-15A3.
    No offense with my question but there are so many different AR configurations and it's better to start in what role the rifle will be used.

    The 16" barrel is adequate for inside the home for home defense and outdoors out to 300 yards or more.

    Most owners that use the AR for home defense picks the 1/7 barrel twist because heavier bullets such as 75 to 77 grain could be used in that situation, Stag Arms and S&W are both 1/9 twist.

    With the brands I originally suggested I would recommend the LMT because they have the 1/7 barrel and of good quality and performance.

    LMT uses Mil-Spec Rock Creek barrels which are also used in competition and the same ones (10.5" barrels) are sometimes used by the Navy Seals.

    LMT don't sell the complete rifle to civilians, they only sell complete guns to the military and police but you could buy the upper and lower separately and just pin the upper to the lower.

    I would also recommend Colt LE6920 for the best reliability as stated by the carbine class instructors at 10-8forums.com forum, any one rifle of any brand could do well in reliability but if you take a lot of rifles and stress them in high volume of fire in a short time, Colts have the least problems followed closely by Stag Arms.

    The Colt could be out of your budget but if you look around really hard and get lucky, might be able to find one but if not the LMT is good to go.

    I have a Colt as my primary and LMT as my backup weapon.
    YMMV

    AR-15 SP1 owner since 1971
    NRA and CRPA life member

  3. #13
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    Alien319,
    If Grant will build you an upper for $440 and you can get a lower with a MagPul CTR or VLTOR Stock and TangoDown grip for around that price, then that is the way to go. Provided it is your desire is get into an AR under $900.

    Also, while slightly off thread you state 200 yards as not a long distance and in some circles that is correct. As a Marine I used think...200 yards that is where we start. However, 200 yards is actually near the end of the lethality envelope of 5.56mm. Not saying you can't kill some at further distances with 5.56mm, just saying that the velocity of the round starts dropping below the "magic" 2500 fps for reliable yawing and fragmentation around 200 yards.
    Most combat shooting actually occurs inside 200 yards and often inside 50 yards. So training with your AR inside 200 yards is actually a lot more practical than shooting "E" silhoutte targets at 500 yards.

    Also, and more importantly from a civilian defense situation engaging "threats" past 25 to 50 yards, unless being fired upon by said threats, will be pretty tough to justify. Thus, training for threat engagement inside 50 yards is very much advisable.
    S/F

  4. #14
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    I agree totally FJB, I am currently in the Marine Corps which is why I said that comment about the distance. I agree about your statement of ballistics of the 5.56 round. Most of my shooting with this rifle will never travel beyond the 200 yard mark. I would be most satisfied with an M4 AR for under 900.

  5. #15
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    take a look at the DPMS line of ar's also....
    www.dpmsinc.com

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    For low end AR's the STAG is VERY nice (if you want a 1/9 twist barrel). You will need to stake the carrier key (or buy the upper from me as I do it).

    LMT's impress me for their quality and price. Sabre Defence is also an excellent choice.

    Daniel Defense also has a nice M4 profiled barrel made out of 4150, Chrome Lined, 1/7 twist with M4 barrel extension. I can build you an M4 upper using this barrel, CMT M4 receiver, LMT BCG and LMT CH for around $440.



    C4
    I don't want to hijack the thread but your post got me interested. I can get a stripped RRA lower from a buddy (big advantage given the recent political turns) who wants to part with one.

    From your post you say you can build a solid upper assembly with a CMT receiver and LMT (I assume MPI tested) BCG for $440? Well I'm interested to say the least!

    I take it that is a flat top receiver? I also have a question on the barrel. Could I get a 1/9 Vs the 1/7? I know the 1/7 are all the rage but I'd like to run either M855 or M193 depending upon what I can get. Based upon my BM carbine the M193 hits about 3" higher at 200 yards. As long as I know that I'm in business.

    Thanks in advance.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    Daniel Defense also has a nice M4 profiled barrel made out of 4150, Chrome Lined, 1/7 twist with M4 barrel extension. I can build you an M4 upper using this barrel, CMT M4 receiver, LMT BCG and LMT CH for around $440.



    C4
    It just so happens I've been in the market for an upper for some time myself. I'll be calling tomorrow Grant.

  8. #18
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    That does seem like an excellent deal and I am also interested in the barrel swap like Low Drag. I will be shooting a lot of lighter bullets. However I might be shooting heavier so I guess I would like a twist that will shoot both fairly accuratly.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    Daniel Defense also has a nice M4 profiled barrel made out of 4150, Chrome Lined, 1/7 twist with M4 barrel extension. I can build you an M4 upper using this barrel, CMT M4 receiver, LMT BCG and LMT CH for around $440.
    WOW. Now that is a hell of a deal. I may just need a spare upper.....

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alien319
    That does seem like an excellent deal and I am also interested in the barrel swap like Low Drag. I will be shooting a lot of lighter bullets. However I might be shooting heavier so I guess I would like a twist that will shoot both fairly accuratly.

    I'm no expert on all these models of ARs that are available but as you can see from my response and other this upper does sound like a good deal.

    I've had a Bushmaster M4ish carbine for a bit over a year now with over 1500 rds through it. No issues at all. Now that I've learned a bit more I am thinking hard about moving all the add on items to a new carbine and putting the BM back to stock or close to it.

    All my guns are for range/sport use, hunting and self defense so I should make sure my primary AR is a pretty good one.

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