Optics for 3 gun?

[Gutshot John]

I don't see anybody recommending that setup in this thread.

Check Grant's post, my point was that any two-optic combination is sub-optimal, whether on top or offset at 45 degrees. Sorry I should have been more clear.

I agree that the piggy-backed MRD on top of an ACOG (or anything really) is sub-optimal. It requires a LOT of repetition to become habitual to go to the higer LOS, and even then people tend to get lower on the stock under stress and drop into their magnified optic. Either way, the line of sight over bore is terrible for close-range work.

What is a viable method is to mount the MRD offset from the magnified optic, but at about the same height over bore so that all you need to do is cant the gun slightly inboard to work the MRD at close range targets.

In my opinion that is a distinction with only negligible difference. Either way it doubles the complexity for most users.

In addition from my perspective the low-powered optic should be the primary as that will get the most use, offset relegates your most useful sight to a sub-optimal location.

Basically the 45 offset or direct piggyback is far from ideal and I think one is better off sticking to one optic and mastering it given limited training resources.

[Failure2Stop]

GSJ-

I could talk about this for a long time.
I find it fairly easy to argue many different sides depending on only a few variables.

I am a little afraid to get into it since I don't want to get too off topic.
If you want to start another thread about it I would gladly join in the conversation.

[Gutshot John]

GSJ-

I could talk about this for a long time.
I find it fairly easy to argue many different sides depending on only a few variables.

I am a little afraid to get into it since I don't want to get too off topic.
If you want to start another thread about it I would gladly join in the conversation.

Sorry if I seemed argumentative, I wasn't really trying to start a huge debate, just offer an opinion.

In my experience those that go with a multiple optic setup tend to have a lot of problems that have discouraged me from going down that road.

I agree that those problems could probably be addressed with training, but I'd guess that training would also allow more effective use of a single optic.

I don't claim to have the perfect solution. It's all in where the individual wishes to make the compromises.

[Failure2Stop]

Sorry if I seemed argumentative, I wasn't really trying to start a huge debate, just offer an opinion.

Nothing taken negatively, nor was I trying to be negative.
I was being completely transparent in my response- I have a lot of interesting and differing view-points on this subject, and would be interested in further discussion of the topic.

[Gutshot John]

Nothing taken negatively, nor was I trying to be negative.
I was being completely transparent in my response- I have a lot of interesting and differing view-points on this subject, and would be interested in further discussion of the topic.

I would be interested in just reading what you have to say, and I think that your perspective might add to this thread rather than a new one.

[Telecomtodd]

Well, here's another angle. Apparently in USPSA there's a factory production class where you can't use optics. Maybe I need to start there and use my Yankee Hill flip ups that came with my rifle.

[Telecomtodd]

I saw from another post that Vltor has a mount for a flashlight that puts it right at the proper angle to the right of the front sight. If they could mod that design for a red dot 1913 mount, they would have something. It mounts at the 90 degree point on a handguard rail.

[halo2304]

Check out the Tactical Night Vision MURLM.

As for the factory production class, what about people with flat top uppers? One of the local ranges puts on a 3-gun shoot and to level the playing field, everyone uses iron sights.

[Alaskapopo]

Check out the Tactical Night Vision MURLM.

As for the factory production class, what about people with flat top uppers? One of the local ranges puts on a 3-gun shoot and to level the playing field, everyone uses iron sights.

Boring. Optics make the rifles able to do so much more. But its their range their rules.
Pat

[Gutshot John]

Nothing taken negatively, nor was I trying to be negative.
I was being completely transparent in my response- I have a lot of interesting and differing view-points on this subject, and would be interested in further discussion of the topic.

I guess my concerns with the offset RDS boil down to the following and I'd be curious as to what you think.

Complexity is a big one, when I see people trying to use it, they fumble around trying to chose which optic to use at which distance, they fumble around trying to get a sight picture, then they often miss, requiring a repeat of the above. Woe betide them if they have to shoot off-hand. In the end I see them increasingly just ignoring the offset RDS and make due with the magnified, primary optic.

Training is another, it seems to me as those that go this route have to devote significant time overcoming years of only using one optic. It seems to me, that one could achieve comparable results by training vigorously on using a magnified optic for CQB.

Then there is the "so what" question. How much speed are you actually gaining by using the offset RDS instead of something like an ACOG? If you have a high-power sniper optic, then I can wrap my heard around it, but relative to the AR it just doesn't seem to me to be that much of a game changer.