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Thread: Major Extraction Failures Today! (Updates About Gun & SW Customer Service)

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo View Post
    Any decent name brand lube is fine, and some guys even use motor oil/etc.
    I'd buy some Slip 2000 and be done with it.

    If you want to run Wolf without these issues, go buy an AK, and shoot the crap out of it.
    Otherwise, you'll probably have some issues from time to time in the AR platform...
    Wolf is about the dirtiest ammo on planet Earth, as you have seen...
    It's not just that it's dirty - it is.

    It's also very *underpowered*... this can lead to certain problems... if your chamber is a touch on the small side you may very well have extraction issues. If your gas port is on the small side you may have issues developing enough pressure for the weapon to unlock, extract and eject properly. Combine these with lousy, inconsistent QC on Wolf ammo and the odds of having issues goes way up. As to the whole steel case vs. brass case argument... I'm not sure if there's anything conclusive on that one. I sure have heard a lot of different theories on it.
    Last edited by Jay Cunningham; 07-05-09 at 22:56.

  2. #22
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    Wolf ammo is dirty and low powered. Early Wolf ammo had a lacquered finish. They then changed to a polymer finish to stop the problem of the chambers getting fowled by the lacquer residue. Steel casings don't do well with .223/5.56mm due to the straight wall case design. 7.62x39 has a tapered case that aids extraction. Also I suspect that the steel case leads to premature extractor wear. The money you save using Wolf amount to what? 60 rounds of Wolf vs. 40 rounds of Privi Partisan. Thoroughly clean your chamber with a good chamber brush. Clean your bolt face and extractor and properly lube the BCG. Get some good ammo and try again.

  3. #23
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    First, The Ammo:

    I have no intention of running Wolf only, and I will most likely stay away from it (after I've burned the last of my rounds off), but I bought the half case for the weekend because it was the only bulk I could find that was affordable to this degree. I assumed before the weekend that it would be a Wolf test.

    As for the oil:

    I am using Hoppes 9 Lubricating Oil. I applied it to the interior of the Carrier, the exterior of the carrier, and lightly to the interior of the upper. It was wet. I clean the gun after every session that is more then two boxes of ammunition. The gun was freshly cleaned prior to this weekend. We did not apply any oil throughout the day today, but we did remover the BCG and whipped it down as well as the inside of the upper.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcmanus View Post
    First, The Ammo:

    I have no intention of running Wolf only, and I will most likely stay away from it (after I've burned the last of my rounds off), but I bought the half case for the weekend because it was the only bulk I could find that was affordable to this degree. I assumed before the weekend that it would be a Wolf test.

    As for the oil:

    I am using Hoppes 9 Lubricating Oil. I applied it to the interior of the Carrier, the exterior of the carrier, and lightly to the interior of the upper. It was wet. I clean the gun after every session that is more then two boxes of ammunition. The gun was freshly cleaned prior to this weekend. We did not apply any oil throughout the day today, but we did remover the BCG and whipped it down as well as the inside of the upper.
    I am unfamiliar with this oil but it may be a little on the light side. Did you apply lube directly to the bolt?

  5. #25
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    Yes, lightly prior to sliding it back in.

    I am just using the gun oil I use on 30.30, and shot gun. I grew up with Hoppes around the house. It may be light though, as it's application seems more for hunting purposes. Any brands to suggest?

  6. #26
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    I personally prefer WeaponShield but others are also good, such as Slip2000 EWL and BreakFree CLP. Light lubes like RemOil just don't cut it in an AR-15.

    The important parts of the AR to lubricate are the bolt and the front half of the carrier - generously. At 400 rounds it's probably time for an extra shot of lube.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Katar View Post
    I am unfamiliar with this oil but it may be a little on the light side. Did you apply lube directly to the bolt?
    It's pure mineral oil. Unsutiable for an AR.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  8. #28
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    To the OP, I have shot thousands of rounds of Wolf of both lacquered and polymer. I've have had only a few stuck cases. On my 6920s, I've gone over 3K rounds between cleanings with no stuck cases. On my LMT, I get them every 800 to 1000 rounds fired or so, with the tar or carbon/oil mix residue you mentioned. On my Sabre upper/Colt lower, zero stuck cases with over 5K rounds on the gun, cleaning every 2K or so. That tells me the LMT is a little more finicky and the chamber and bolt lugs needs to be cleaned more than the other 3. I've also had a few stuck cases when mixing Wolf with brass Prvi ammo on the same range trip and so have other folks on the range. It's odd that I intentionally tried to get a stuck case by mixing steel and brass in the same mags, a few years ago and couldn't do it. So now, I don't mix the ammo.

    As far as velocity, what is considered the definition of underpowered? I realize this is not match ammo in any stretch of the imagination, but is 9, 50, or 100 fps slower than M193, considered "Way" or "Very" underpowered?

    M193 55 gr FMJ 3250 fps
    Wolf BB 55 gr FMJ 3150 fps
    Wolf MC 55 gr HP 3241 fps
    Wolf MC 55 gr FMJ 3200 fps
    Wolf BB 62 gr FMJ 3052 fps
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  9. #29
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    You make a good point. Once can't just focus solely on the ammo or on the weapon. When you look at gas port sizes, ammo and chambers the whole picture looks different.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Katar View Post
    It's not just that it's dirty - it is.

    It's also very *underpowered*... this can lead to certain problems... if your chamber is a touch on the small side you may very well have extraction issues. If your gas port is on the small side you may have issues developing enough pressure for the weapon to unlock, extract and eject properly. Combine these with lousy, inconsistent QC on Wolf ammo and the odds of having issues goes way up. As to the whole steel case vs. brass case argument... I'm not sure if there's anything conclusive on that one. I sure have heard a lot of different theories on it.



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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcmanus View Post
    The first extracted case had a twisted groove dug into it. The last one was covered in black tar.
    Sounds to me like your extractor and extractor spring are probably fine if they're digging in and warping the case rim. It's doing that because the case is sticking in the chamber and not extracting easily.

    I would hit the chamber with a chamber brush and give it a good cleaning. Wolf ammo does indeed suck but it could be that your chamber is on the tight side. See if you can find someone with a 5.56 chamber reamer like the one from here:

    http://www.m-guns.com/tools.php

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