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Thread: Removable carry handle question

  1. #1
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    Removable carry handle question

    I saw the picture below in another thread and wanted to ask a specific question concerning the issue depicted in the picture. I handled a number of used, Colt, removable carry handles at my local dealer and each and every one had the rear sight move in the fashion noted in the picture. My dealer was very honest about the fact that every one he had did the same thing. He indicated he was told this is common to the removable carry handles. I've always used a folding BUIS, so I have no other experience with these. My question then, is this truely a common characteristic of the removable carry handle?

    Last edited by rmecapn; 07-06-09 at 12:01.
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    yep it's normal.

    take a look at the pic below... the sight is canted due to spring #4
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    Yup, all 111 of the M16A2's in my vault (I'm the fulltime supply sergeant for my Guard unit) have the same apparent twist. And most removable carry handles use standard A2 sight components. every time we qualify, someone tries to use this as an excuse for their horrible shooting!

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    Canting of rear sight.

    This is not all purely an alibi. That is why the National Match Service Rifles, if properly set up, will have part # 9 pinned to part #24).

    There will be a guide pin on the front and rear of that part (#9) so that the adjustments will not cant the rear sight in relation to the rest of the A2 upper or the removable carry handle in the case of a NM AR 15 A4.

    There is accuracy and then there is accuracy!
    Last edited by Ricardus; 07-06-09 at 15:35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardus View Post
    This is not all purely an alibi. That is why the National Match Service Rifles, if properly set up, will have part # 9 pinned to part #24).

    There will be a guide pin on the front and rear of that part (#9) so that the adjustments will not cant the rear sight in relation to the rest of the A2 upper or the removable carry handle in the case of a NM AR 15 A4.

    There is accuracy and then there is accuracy!
    True, but dosn't the NM sight have a smaller aperture, as well? I'm willing to bet that the size difference mkes for a bigger accuracy differential than the canted aperture.

    Plus, these are the same guys that foget to put the small aperture up when they zero, complain about zeroing in the first place, then bitch when they miss the 50 meter target!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdrimm View Post
    True, but dosn't the NM sight have a smaller aperture, as well? I'm willing to bet that the size difference mkes for a bigger accuracy differential than the canted aperture.

    Plus, these are the same guys that foget to put the small aperture up when they zero, complain about zeroing in the first place, then bitch when they miss the 50 meter target!
    Actually, I believe the canted aperture is a bigger problem. The human eye will naturally center the front sight but canting is another mechanical aiming issue altogether. For example when David Tubb cants his sights at an angle - it is to make corrections for his body's natural positioning. But his sighting system as a whole is canted, not just the rear sight! He is canting his rifle in the opposite from the way his body is canting - esp. in the standing position.

    Just my 30 cents (the U.S. currency has been taking a beating lately) worth -- I could be completely wrong.

    Your guys probably think that giving them optics will solve their immediate problems. However, it's not just sight alignment, but trigger press, breathing, body position, rest, and practice.

    Someone yelling at them will most likely not help either
    Last edited by Ricardus; 07-06-09 at 19:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardus View Post

    Your guys probably think that giving them optics will solve their immediate problems. However, it's not just sight alignment, but trigger press, breathing, body position, rest, and practice.
    True, we had M68's during our last deployment, and most of these guy's qual scores were the same or worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardus View Post

    Someone yelling at them will most likely not help either
    Yelling? They are supposed to be ready for someone shooting back at them!

    Boy, did this thread get off track!
    Last edited by Jdrimm; 07-06-09 at 19:02.

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    No no.
    We are not off track. We teach marksmanship first and then we teach them what works on the battlefield and what does not.

    If they are not trained properly, and if their training does not stick, they will revert to what was wrong to begin with. There is still a lot of controversy over what works in a firefight and what works in competition and for that matter what snipers are able to achieve as opposed to an infantry squad or platoon.

    I was also trained as a sniper / reconnaissance NCO. I have seen guys bang away with an M60 and not hit anything and make no effort to correct. This is where you teach them to walk the point of impact into the enemy position. We did the same thing with other weapon systems as well.
    Fine motor skills (like making fine sight adjustments) rarely stay intact when the SHTF.
    Last edited by Ricardus; 07-06-09 at 19:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardus View Post
    No no.
    We are not off track. We teach marksmanship first and then we teach them what works on the battlefield and what does not.

    If they are not trained properly, and if their training does not stick, they will revert to what was wrong to begin with. There is still a lot of controversy over what works in a firefight and what works in competition and for that matter what snipers are able to achieve as opposed to an infantry squad or platoon.

    I was also trained as a sniper / reconnaissance NCO. I have seen guys bang away with an M60 and not hit anything and make no effort to correct. This is where you teach them to walk the point of impact into the enemy position. We did the same thing with other weapon systems as well.
    Fine motor skills (like making fine sight adjustments) rarely stay intact when the SHTF.
    No argument here. The off-track comment referred to the OP's question about the twist in his rear sight, which we left behind several posts ago.

    In the National Guard, at least my state, we simply don't have enough time to retrain marksmanship, there are far too many other mandatory training requirements. That situation is what got me into AR platfoms in the first place, I didn't like my qual scores, and didn't want to trust myself in a firefight.

    Most of the soldiers who complain about equipment are older, long-service guys. Some of the men went through IET with an M14! I constantly hear that they want their M16A1 back, but if you check the old records, their quals were just as bad back then, too.

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    I don't know for sure but that particular carry handle sight looks far more canted than what I remember. Im holding a USGI carry handle sight, there is some wiggle. But there is not the gap shown in the picture.

    I had another follow up question regarding something mentioned earlier. If the rear sight is pinned to the carry handle, how can you elevate the sight ? Just curious, excuse my ignorance.

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