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Thread: M&P15 OR BUSHMASTER.

  1. #81
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    The 1:7" will handle 55s fine, but usually the 1:9" of equal quality will handle them better. If you're shooting XM193 or something similar as a primary load, the 1:9" is a good choice. On the flipside, usually a 1:7" is going to be more accurate with 75s given barrels of equal quality.

    Accuracy at room distance is a moot point.

    The 77 gr SMK is a poor choice. It is designed to buck wind and put bullets on target downrange. It is not designed for maximum terminal performance. The 55 gr V-Max or the 75 gr V-Max both will outperform it. The difference between the 75 gr V-Max and the 55 gr V-Max is penetration. In TAP loads, the 75gr penetrates 20% further. Hornady recommends the 55 to perform optimally in 1:9". Hornady recommends optimal performance of 75s in both 1:7 and 1:9". The 60 gr V-Max penetrates 10% further than 55 gr V-Maxes and retains more weight than either the 55 gr or 75 gr.

    Many guys want their self-defense ammunition to be crimped over a cannelure. That leaves the 55 gr. V-Max as a good choice and disqualifies 75 gr V-Maxes, but I've never seen a cartridge with good neck-tension (.005-.007") grow in a magazine thought that doesn't mean it can't happen.

    If a gun is built right and has a 1:9", it isn't a black mark against the gun. It is possibly even more desirable depending on your intended use. Twist rate is not a critical characteristic to the reliability of a given gun so as long as the twist rate will handle the primary loads, it shouldn't disqualify it from consideration providing it is built right (ie critical components: NATO chamber, MPI, good staking, etc).
    Last edited by tylerw02; 07-14-09 at 12:16.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerw02 View Post
    Ac
    The 77 gr SMK is a poor choice. It is designed to buck wind and put bullets on target downrange. It is not designed for maximum terminal performance. The 55 gr V-Max or the 75 gr V-Max both will outperform it. The difference between the 75 gr V-Max and the 55 gr V-Max is penetration. In TAP loads, the 75gr penetrates 20% further. Hornady recommends the 55 to perform optimally in 1:9". Hornady recommends optimal performance of 75s in both 1:7 and 1:9". The 60 gr V-Max penetrates 10% further than 55 gr V-Maxes and retains more weight than either the 55 gr or 75 gr.

    Many guys want their self-defense ammunition to be crimped over a cannelure. That leaves the 55 gr. V-Max as a good choice and disqualifies 75 gr V-Maxes, but I've never seen a cartridge with good neck-tension (.005-.007") grow in a magazine thought that doesn't mean it can't happen.

    i have never seen .223 75 grain V-MAX TAP loaded ammunition

    i have seen 75 grain open tip TAP and 55 grain VMAX TAP....but never 75 V-MAX TAP

    personally i don't trust ballistic tip ammo for personal defense. i'll leave the varmint bullets for the varmints

    like i said in my last post, YMMV
    TUEBOR

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROADKING View Post
    Just a simple question between two rifles. All i want is a simple answer. BUSHMASTER OR SMITH.
    I own one of each.
    A Bushmaster CQBR carbine and a M&P15 SPR precision rifle.
    They are both good.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabellum9x19mm View Post
    i've had and seen issues with Bushmaster and stuck Wolf cases, but then there are other people who have Bushmasters who have never had a malfunction and all they shoot is Wolf.
    4000+ rounds to date using Wolf ammo, and zero failures.
    I don't buy the Bushy/Wolf hate because I know better... first hand.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    4000+ rounds to date using Wolf ammo, and zero failures.
    I don't buy the Bushy/Wolf hate because I know better... first hand.
    i'm glad to hear that you don't have issues with your BFI.

    my first hand experience with my Bushmaster and Wolf was pretty damn shitty.

    i have also witnessed first hand other Bushmasters on the firing line get locked up with Wolf

    as i previously stated, in the post that you quoted, i've experienced these issues myself

    in that same post, i said some other people never have issues and all they shoot is Wolf

    apparently your first hand experience counts more than that of other's, because you just "know better".

    i'm happier without my old Bushmaster upper. if you're happy with your Bushmaster, more power to you.
    Last edited by Parabellum9x19mm; 07-15-09 at 00:06.
    TUEBOR

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabellum9x19mm View Post
    i have never seen .223 75 grain V-MAX TAP loaded ammunition

    i have seen 75 grain open tip TAP and 55 grain VMAX TAP....but never 75 V-MAX TAP

    personally i don't trust ballistic tip ammo for personal defense. i'll leave the varmint bullets for the varmints

    like i said in my last post, YMMV
    You are right, the 75 is a BTHP, not a V-Max. That was negligent editing on my part. Sorry about the confusion. The 55 and 60 gr are V-Maxes.

    To me, home invaders are varmints

    I'm on the other side of the fence, as I don't trust FMJ BTHP type bullets to expand. I've shot many a deer/coyote with them with poor results. When they slow down, they just don't get the job done. Human vitals aren't that deep, so rapid expansion seems more important to me. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I've come to the conclusion based on how quick the critters I've shot have gone down.

    I have heard great things about running hot loads with the 55 gr. SP W/C and 60 gr SP, but I haven't tried them yet. I may have to make some gel and try it as it would be a good medium between V-Max and BTHP bullets' expansion. Anyway, I suppose we've gotten far enough off topic and I extend my apologies to the OP.
    Last edited by tylerw02; 07-15-09 at 01:10.

  7. #87
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    You are citing a sample of one. Some of us can refer to dozens if not hundreds. How long did it take you to reach the 4K mark and how many rounds were fired in one session? Things like that matter. If I shot 4K rounds through a Bushy over a two year period that's only 5.7 rounds per day. I would hardly expect any failures from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    4000+ rounds to date using Wolf ammo, and zero failures.
    I don't buy the Bushy/Wolf hate because I know better... first hand.



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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    4000+ rounds to date using Wolf ammo, and zero failures.
    I don't buy the Bushy/Wolf hate because I know better... first hand.
    Well, I guess that settles it. Because your bushy fired 4000 rounds of wolf, that is a sure sign that all bushies will never have problems with wolf now.

  9. #89
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    I shot approximately 1300 rounds thru an M&P15T suppresed with an AAC M4/SPR can at a Pat Rogers course a couple of months ago in Pueblo. The only thing I did the entire time was lube it. To me this is an easy choice, if the M&P puts up with this type of abuse then this is what I will buy.

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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabellum9x19mm View Post
    it really seems like you want to get flamed. you make flame-bait comments, like the whole sarcastic walking on water thing, burning your BFI and then say, "FLAME ON" like you really are trying to get some sort of shit started.

    nobody on this forum is going to think less of someone else, or flame them based on their choice of rifle.

    the only issues like that are when someone tries to explain why a person's BFI/DPMS/RRA isn't the equal of a Colt/LMT/Noveske and that guy gets all defensive and butthurt and starts crying how buying a Colt or LMT is only "paying for a name" or some such shit.


    i agree with you on most of the actual points that you made...the non sarcastic ones however, i have to side with IraqGunz on the barrel issue.

    BFI barrels are nothing special. no, they're not bad, but i don't see how you can say they make "the best" barrels. that is just a ridiculous claim. just to name a few, Noveske, Sabre, BCM all make chrome lined barrels that are much better than BFI...so no BFI barrels are very far from being "the best barrels"....but yeah, they are better than DPMS, RRA, DTI & Oly barrels
    At no time did I make a claim that BM makes THE "best barrel's".YOU stated I said that and I never did.I said "some of the best" and you quoted several mfg's that were inferior.That was just jumping on the "I hate BM bandwagon"
    I have a 6920 and I never said that the BM was an equal to that.
    My point is a BM is FAR from a POS.
    AGAIN...is BM TDP?NO
    Will a BM fail you?maybe.
    Will a Colt/LMT/Noveske fail?Maybe.
    Is a BM likely to fail before the big 3...Maybe.
    That's the real issue isn't it?
    At no time did I say a BM was as good as the BIG 3..But it is far from junk.
    When I said "flame on"...that's what you do when you hear the word "Bushmaster".

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