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Thread: Do I really need an optic?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mute View Post
    You'd be surprised how accurate iron sights can be if you learn to use them properly. However, they'll never match the speed of a high quality optical sight.
    I can match the speed of an optic all day long. That's the myth... Anyone willing to put a little effort in practicing his irons, understanding hold over, and employing the front sight only method for contact distance shooting can be just as fast, if not FASTER with irons.

    I, to this day still have not put an RDS on any of my ARs. I have one on my 10/22 for the hell of it, but not on my fighting guns.

    In about all of the carbean classes I've taken, the instructor has asked that the students take off or at least turn off the dot for a portion of the class. And none of my instructors run dot sights OR have friends at aimpoint who give them sights for free..... so there's less of a bias there in my opinion.

    KevinB made the best, legitimate, arguement for an RDS here a while back. Although he admitted that he was equally fast with his irons, the RDS helped out in adverse fighting conditions..... Smoke, dust, etc. The dot sights do offer some benefits, but for an accomplished shooter, speed shouldn't be a factor.

    I bought a mount for an aimpoint and was getting really close to picking one up, but now I'm thinking the money can be better spent on other preps.
    Last edited by markm; 07-13-09 at 11:07.

  2. #32
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    Keep in mind, the idea behind the optics is for rapid target engagement by troops that may not have had enough time training with iron sights. With that being said, there are advanced ways to leverage optics that make them worth every penny that you spend on them....after you have mastered the iron sights.

  3. #33
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    Target Movement
    Lighting
    Weather
    Shooter Movement

    If you can eliminate those four variables (and others) then Irons sights can do very very well.

    Its not until your moving, and/or lighting is less than optimal, that you really notice the advantages of an optic.

    As well the maginified sights give great target discrimination and detection at range (not such an issue for civilians in America - Thank God)

    The 6 accepted Tier1 units in the world
    CAG
    DevGru
    22 SAS
    JTF-2
    SASR
    GSG-9

    All use optics - now given they have the lead in NLI responce that may be a small clue, that optics usage has a grounded need in reality.




    All weapons need a light, and you need a handheld as well.
    Kevin S. Boland
    Manager, Federal Sales
    FN America, LLC
    Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 407-451-4544 | Fax: 703.288.4505
    www.fnhusa.com

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    Target Movement
    Lighting
    Weather
    Shooter Movement

    If you can eliminate those four variables (and others) then Irons sights can do very very well.
    I wouldn't say eliminate, I would say train to those four variables. The training really breaks down to how much time do you have to train.

    The CQB teams that use the shoothouse in Northwest Cheasapeake do very well with the iron sights.

  5. #35
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    Look into the CSAT rear iron sight by XS Sights. It is a very fast iron sight.

  6. #36
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    If you have been in similar gunfights with a good RDS and with nothing but a set of irons you will probably develop a preference for a good RDS. I have and do, and all my friends that have, do. In every situation that I know, having an applicable quality optic will enable the shooter to out-perform themself with irons.

    Just because irons are workable does not at all mean that they are equal or superior to a quality RDS.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  7. #37
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    To echo what F2S says but from my side of the fence, the same can be said of competition. We have some guys that shoot with us that do very well with iron sights, and we have some guys that shoot optics and win but would likely STILL win with irons, but when you factor in shooting moving targets on the move in reduced light (our matches are from 18:30 to 21:30) and from unconventional positions and from behind, cover, optics rule the day.

  8. #38
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    Guys, I'm not saying that irons are superior to optics......I don't want to throw away my hogstooth.

    From the op's initial post, without the funds available to purchase good optics now....IMHO, he'd be better off learning the ins & outs of irons until he can get a good optic.

    Training to shoot with half a$$ optics will do more damage than training to shoot using iron sights. The minute that the half a$$ goes down and if he isn't comfortable with iron......

    When the trainees in my family get second nature with the irons....the TA31s will be bought.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Just because irons are workable does not at all mean that they are equal or superior to a quality RDS.
    I don't think anyone's saying irons are superior. They are superior in some roles as an RDS can be much superior in different roles.

    I don't think it's an issue with the majority of shooters on this site, but I get a sense that there's a dependence on technology when it comes to the RDS systems out there. I guess it's no biggie, because those peckerheads probably run shotguns for defense anyway.

  10. #40
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    Depends on your purpose. If you don't just plan on using your carbine for self-defense or duty; then spend the money on some quality trigger time. Just buy an optic later on when you're able.

    If you think your life will depend on whether or not you can make a hit at low to no-light situations; buy the best optic you can afford (I highly recommend the T-1 or H-1). Good luck!!
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

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