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Thread: Why I Bought It

  1. #11
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    Thanks for your inputs! I should clarify my original post by adding that I knew little or nothing about Tier 1 vs.Tier 2 (and Tier 3) ARs until AFTER I got my lower and ordered the RRA carbine kit. I have since been reading up on calguns.net and arfcom. I followed links from arfcom to M4Carbine a few weeks ago, and am now hooked.

    In regard to my 25 yard indoor range time, that's what's reasonably available to me in North San Diego County. 99% of my shooting is pistols (Glocks, Kahr, P22) and revolvers (S&W) - I spend a lot of time in the desert during the cool season, and intend to join the Palm Springs Gun Club for outdoor work.

    I'm leaning heavily toward the BCM option - I figure that if I buy everything I need from them, it would run about $830 (plus shipping, and without the RRA two-stage trigger). Couple more questions: What are (if any) the downsides of a mid-length 16" upper vs. the 16" carbine? Do you heed an H buffer for the mid-length? Is the Stag lower parts kit better than the DPMS parts kit that BCM carries?

    Thanks again,

    Vista

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vista View Post
    Couple more questions: What are (if any) the downsides of a mid-length 16" upper vs. the 16" carbine? Do you heed an H buffer for the mid-length? Is the Stag lower parts kit better than the DPMS parts kit that BCM carries?

    Thanks again,

    Vista
    A mid-length upper will require mid-length handguards, and there is no notch for a M203 launcher (not that really matter, as most of us have no use for one). The mid-length might be a tiny bit heavier, aside from that There really isn't a downside.

    Most recommend a standard buffer for a mid-length system, as it's less violent. You could use an H buffer, but there is a chance it may not cycle 1000% when dirty or using lower pressure (cheaper) ammo.

    Stag is generally considered a better LPK with a better trigger than DPMS.

  3. #13
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    Another update! Taking ALL your advice, I put in an email bid for the BCM 16" mid-length upper and a BCM BCG. Amazingly enough, the Bolt Carrier Group came into stock today, and is now on its way to me. Now, I've got to wait for the upper, and track down the other pieces I need. Still would appreciate your advice and recommendations...particularly in regard to handguards, stocks, and lower parts kits.

    Vista

  4. #14
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    I have RRA mid-length handguards on my BCM Middy. You could go with a rail, but honestly it just adds weight, and not needed by most of us. Add some Ergo polymer rails to your standard handguard if you need attachment point for for light, Vertical grips and sling mounts.

    RRA mid-length handguards:
    http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.c...ategory_id=306

    AS for you LPK, Stag or RRA are good and mostly available now. I have several DPMS LPKs on rifles only because a few months back that all that could be found, and even then it took some luck.

    D&D Ranch has 9 in stock at the moment:
    http://www.ddsranch.com/cart/index.p...roducts_id=629

    What do you already have or have ordered? If you can group them from the same place that has what your looking for in stock you will save on shipping. If you need a charging handle try to add it to the BCM BCG order to same some on shipping. Same goes for you stock.

    Anyway, it late and I have to get to bed!
    Last edited by RojasTKD; 07-16-09 at 02:52.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vista View Post
    Another update! Taking ALL your advice, I put in an email bid for the BCM 16" mid-length upper and a BCM BCG. Amazingly enough, the Bolt Carrier Group came into stock today, and is now on its way to me. Now, I've got to wait for the upper, and track down the other pieces I need. Still would appreciate your advice and recommendations...particularly in regard to handguards, stocks, and lower parts kits.

    Vista
    I am very pleased with my BCM M4 stock kit.

    I believe that only two companies currently manufacture mid length handguards, and both seem to be well made. In short, just buy the first ones you see for $30 or under. I got mine from Brownells.

  6. #16
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    I strongly recommend the BCM mid-length. I didn't know what I was missing until I got my hands on my first middie. If the barrel length is over 14.5 I will take a middie anyday. I still like the carbine for some applications.

    For furniture I really look no further than Magpul. The MOE furniture is a great option if you are looking to save a few bucks, although unfortunately there are no MOE handguards for the middie. I have used RRA and Cav Arms and prefer the none-tapered Cav Arms. You can find them for sale here and there on the net.

    My latest build consisted of a Noveske lower with Magpul UBR stock, MIAD grip, BCM Mid-length upper and BCM BCG. I needed rails on this build and went with Larue 9.0 and Larue BUIS. Added a FUG and Surefire 6P LED and a Vickers sling and I was done.

    I have used many STAG/ CMT LPK's in my builds and I have no complaints. I don't like the DPMS kits as I have seen problems in the past. RRA are ok but I see no reason to have a two stage trigger in a fighting rifle. An SPR sure, but not a fighting rifle.
    Only hits count......you can not miss fast enough to catch up

  7. #17
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    Yet Another Update!

    RojasTKD asked what I have or have ordered in regard to my AR build.

    I have a stripped CA-legal OLL (LRB Arms), three C-Products ten-round mags (the California Legislature has promised that any zombie attacks will come from groups of less than ten), a Bullet Button (this converts a mag from being detachable to detachable only with use of a tool), a Magpul MBUS, and about 1300 rounds of 556/223 ammo (I also have a Mini-14 SS Ranch Rifle, so all is not lost).

    I have canceled my RRA A4 Carbine Kit order, but I have not heard back from them.

    I have a request for notification of availability of a BCM mid-length upper, which I will buy the instant it's available. I also intend to get the BCM charging handle, the RRA slightly tapered mid-length handguards, mil-spec buffer tube assembly, and probably the Ergo grip, whenever all or most of these items come into stock from BCM. I'm also looking at the Magpul MOE stock, though I've seen a few threads that say a mid-length is "front-heavy" with an MOE stock. I need a lower parts kit and am searching the web for an in-stock RRA or CMT/Stag LPK. I will eventually get an optic, and am leaning towards an EoTech, despite the many arguments for an Aimpoint.

    I'm heading down to the Del Mar gun show tomorrow to see what's available there, but I suspect most of my buys will be via the internet.

    As always, I would appreciate your thoughts and recommendations...

    Vista

  8. #18
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    theres stag/cmt lower parts kits all over gun broker for less than $70

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    ......... I'm not sure what kind of order you placed with Rock River, but truthfully their lower receiver internal parts are pretty good, if you ditch the two-stage. Another quality supplier of lower internal parts is CMT/Stag. You'll still need to add a stock and I'd suggest replacing the pistol grip with a Magpul MOE or an A1 grip, and add a gapper.
    ROB - I've heard of the "gap" but still am not sure what people are talking about? Can someone post a pic of this "gap" and where that "gapper" installs on the rifle? I just can't visualize it. Thanks.

    OP - I'll give my experience on this also, as I was someone who's shot / hunted / owned guns my whole life - going with Papaw, Dad, Uncles as a kid for as long as I can remember, yet still looked at AR's as something no one really needed or had use for but had every right in the world to own of course. I was doing some 10-22 and got routed over to AR15 website. While in the 10-22 section I thought I'd read a little about AR's and see what all the fuss was about these guns. The more I read the more I realized these are VERY cool rifles. And the more I decided I wanted one.

    I read up on AR's over on TOS and was just overwhelemed by all the lingo and different brands, components, building this and building that. At this time the market was starting to get crazy on everything AR. I went to a local gun shop and they had a wall full of ARs. Mostly DoubleStars with a few other brands strung in as well. I came home and searched on TOS about DoubleStar and they seemed to get great reviews. I went back and bought a DoubleStar DS-4 for $999 (plus tax)

    After some time I found this site and was bummed to learn that I could have bought or built a higher quality rifle that IS mil-spec for the same money or just a tad more. I ordered some lowers from Essential Arms $105 (at that time the lower rush was on and everyone had long lead times on them). I then got DoubleStar LPK's $70, RRA BCG's $140 and lucked out and got BCM mid-length uppers $485, BCM M4 stock kits $83 and caught handguards on sale from Cav-Arms for $10ea. At this point I had $893 (plus whatever shipping the orders cost me) in a very nice rifle that was closer to true mil-spec than my DoubleStar.

    Just recently I've sold and replaced the RRA BCG's with BCM BCG's $159 and have also sold off the EA lowers and BCM stocks and replaced them with BCM Complete Lowers $350 now that they've come available. Even with that, I've $1,004 in a complete BCM rifle that follows the TDP right up there with Colt and LMT. True, my "mistakes", if you want to call them that (it's not a mistake if you learn, right LOL) have cost me some money in multiple shipping charges and loosing a little money selling items for less than I paid for them. The point is, that one of my BCM rifles cost me a whole $5 more than my original DoubleStar did. I haven't figured it up, but if you compare the tax I paid on the DoubleStar and the shipping I paid on the BCM components it's still prob about the same money, give or take a few bucks.

    I now have 3 identical BCM mid-length rifles with consecutive serial #'s (HUGE THANKS TO GRANT FOR THAT) for me and my 2 boys. The 2 for my boys will be safe'd until they get grown (about 18yrs from now) and I had originally planned to keep my BCM safe'd along with theirs and just shoot the DoulbeStar's guts out. However, lately I've been thinking of maybe selling the DoubleStar and wringing the ever living life out of my BCM - cause that's what it was made for and I know it will take it.

    ...............

  10. #20
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    Update.

    Just got an email from BCM saying the 16" mid-length upper is in stock. That's now on the way, along with the BCM charging handle. I've got an Ergo grip and Magpul CTR stock on order from Denny's Guns (no ETA yet) and am still looking for the RRA mid-length black handguards. Assuming all this stuff comes in the near future, I should have an operational AR. Thanks to all for steering me away from the Tier 2/3 ARs to a Tier 1, and from a carbine to the middie. All my research indicates that the mid-length is the way to go, at least for me.

    Vista

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