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Thread: Which AR-15 Kit?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Bryant View Post
    I knew joining this forum would get me in trouble. Now I'm going to have to buy two guns, an A4 and an M4. (Now I need to think about how to discuss this with my wife . . . )
    AR15s are a disease....once you get one, it spreads and you end up with half a dozen.

  2. #22
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    I hope this doesn't get anybody cranky-

    If your son is joining Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, the last thing he needs is a cobbled together M4. The USMC has been teaching people how to use the tools given to them to the greatest effect for over 230 years. He will be taught exactly what he needs to know, and nothing less. It is much better to have someone without training scars show up for instruction. As much as people want to help, they usually just wind up spending money on something that gets frowned at twice a year.

    The $800 to $1200 you are looking at spending on an AR would be much better used to buy real stuff a warrior needs to survive and dominate in a rough and imposing country like Afghanistan.

    Here's my suggestion, take it or leave it, I really am not going to fight about it- wait until your kid finishes recruit training and the school of infantry and makes it to his first unit. From there he can ask those that have been there and done the job he will be expected to do what kit makes the most difference. I will bet my paycheck they will not say its the AR their Dad bought them before Boot Camp. I recommend you sink that dough into the stuff that will help him win his fight, and leave the weapons and training to the organization he is joining.
    Jack Leuba
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    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    I hope this doesn't get anybody cranky-

    If your son is joining Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, the last thing he needs is a cobbled together M4. The USMC has been teaching people how to use the tools given to them to the greatest effect for over 230 years. He will be taught exactly what he needs to know, and nothing less. It is much better to have someone without training scars show up for instruction. As much as people want to help, they usually just wind up spending money on something that gets frowned at twice a year.

    The $800 to $1200 you are looking at spending on an AR would be much better used to buy real stuff a warrior needs to survive and dominate in a rough and imposing country like Afghanistan.

    Here's my suggestion, take it or leave it, I really am not going to fight about it- wait until your kid finishes recruit training and the school of infantry and makes it to his first unit. From there he can ask those that have been there and done the job he will be expected to do what kit makes the most difference. I will bet my paycheck they will not say its the AR their Dad bought them before Boot Camp. I recommend you sink that dough into the stuff that will help him win his fight, and leave the weapons and training to the organization he is joining.
    I appreciate your input here, Failure, but I need to put it in a context. Some questions:


    1) Are you in the Marines?
    2) Do you know what kind of "real stuff" a dad is allowed to buy and send to his son after he gets to Afghanistan?
    3) Do you know about the research done after WWII connecting success on the battlefield with expertise with a firearm BEFORE joining the service ("Those country boys sure can shoot!")?
    4) Do you think that growing up in the woods with a .22 has helped my son or hindered him? Have his twice-a-week trips to the range and countless hunts with me helped him or hindered him in becoming proficient with his USMC weapons?
    5) Do you think growing up in the woods with an AR-15 would have helped him or hindered him?
    6) What do you mean by "training scars"?
    7) What's the difference betwen a "cobbled together" gun and one put together properly?
    Last edited by Bill Bryant; 07-20-09 at 15:51.

  4. #24
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    F2S is refering to the fact that the military has a training method they want recruits to follow, and having to un-learn habits picked up before the military can hinder the proper developement of a recruits BRM skills.

    i'd never fired a semi-auto rifle before i joined- it took a loooong time, believe it or not, for me to not pick my face up off the stock and reach for the bolt lever after every shot fired. really screwed me up. for example.

    however- there is something to be said for weapon familiarity... i think getting some good field-strip/clean/trigger time on an AR before joining would be really beneficial. just make sure he's doing it all the USMC way.. i imagine you can find a book on marine corps BRM somewhere.

    as far as the weapon, my own ranking, using your comparison method:

    noveske and KAC are the dakota arms (i'm just using your reference, i dont actually know who dakota arms is) of ARs.. Colt/LMT/sabre are the remington 700 of ARs, and bushmaster/dpms/olyarms are the gun you get for free with an oil change. CMMG is bottom of the "professional grade" category, and stag is at the top of the "home-owner model" category. in my opinion.

  5. #25
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    The main issued weapon is the M16A4, but there are quite a few M4's out there as well. The manual of arms is still the same. Though personally I would let him learn it the USMC way rather than picking up some bad habit they will break him of.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmecapn View Post
    To the best of my knowledge, the USMC does not issue M4's. If you're going to be giving it to him so he can familiarize himself with the weapon he will be issued, then you need to put together a M16A4gery and not an M4gery. I'm just sayin' ...



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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I would let him learn it the USMC way rather than picking up some bad habit they will break him of.
    So don't let him shoot any gun at all before boot camp, or just don't let him shoot anything on the AR-15 platform, or what? Has shooting his 10/22 constantly since he was nine years old been a good thing or a bad thing? I understand the issue of having to unlearn bad habits, but I also understand (or think I understand) the advantage of having spent years learning to shoot well. Keep the comments and clarifications coming.
    Last edited by Bill Bryant; 07-20-09 at 16:25.

  7. #27
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    BB,

    If you do your research and read some of what has been posted the cost difference between a BM carbine and some of the others mentioned is not as much as you think. Again, we are talking about a few hundred dollars.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  8. #28
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    I would KISS and allow him to learn the field stripping and cycle of operation. Other than that allow the USMC to teach him. JM2CW. YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Bryant View Post
    So don't let him shoot any gun at all before boot camp, or just don't let him shoot anything on the AR-15 platform, or what? Has shooting his 10/22 constantly since he was nine years old been a good thing or a bad thing? I understand the issue of having to unlearn bad habits, but I also understand (or think I understand) the advantage of having spent years learning to shoot well. Keep the comments and clarifications coming.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  9. #29
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    FWIW, since I've already stepped in it ...

    I entered active duty in September of 1974. I purchased an AR-15 in April of 1973. Other than making it difficult to stay awake in the field stripping class, I don't believe owning and shooting an AR prior to entering the military hurt me at all. I wasn't too proud to listen to the instruction given in any class taught on the M16, to include BRM. I still use the techniques taught me in basic to this day. Whatever bad stuff I learned prior to basic was left behind when I learned the good stuff. I guess it depends on the individual.

    ETA: Also, I have been shooting since I was 6 years old.
    Last edited by rmecapn; 07-20-09 at 17:46.
    Just one of the Shepherd's sheepdogs. Joshua 24:15

  10. #30
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    I'm the newbie here but it looks to me like we're getting away from the fact that the OP has found a great excuse to buy an AR15. Yet for some reason he's being told don't do it. Whether or not his son uses it for 3-4 months before going in the Marines every home should have an AR. Two (1x5.56 & 1x6.8 SPC ) if they can swing it.

    Looking at the chart and the number of police agencies buying M&P15s and a street price of right about $1000 I can't see any reason not to chose one for a homeowner rifle. But I also think contacting Grant for a member price on a BCM based "kit" is the Mac Truck solution.
    Last edited by sholling; 07-20-09 at 17:50. Reason: Replaced Cadillac with Mac Truck

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