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Thread: Which AR-15 Kit?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaglocker View Post
    I think you'll find that most here don't buy into the "just as good as a..." concept when it comes to fighting rifles. If your willing to spend $800-900 on a rifle then there is no excuse not to save up a little more and get something as close to the TDP as possible (i.e. Colt, LMT, BCM). In the end it is up to you. If it's just going to be a plinker then by all means get the Stag or a Bushy. If you envision ever having to depend on it to save your life then spend the extra coin.
    I don't buy into the "just as good as" idea either.

    I think I'm hearing you say that the difference between an $800 AR-15 and a $1500 one is about always going bang rather than about fit and finish. I think you're saying that buying a Colt or LMT is about buying a "real" AR-15, not an over and beyond one, and that $800 versions are in fact sub-standard, corners cutting, examples of the blueprint.

    My Remington 700 always goes bang, never mis-feeds, and shoots sub MOA with good ammo. It's been on many hunts and never lets me down in the field. True enough, it isn't a Dakota Arms or Cooper, but it is still a "real" rifle, made to blueprint and cutting no corners with regard to the fulfillment of its design. I think you're saying that no one makes a Cooper-level AR-15: that a Colt or LMT AR-15 is just a "real" AR-15, and Stag, etc. are sub-blueprint.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Bryant View Post
    As best I can Google it, y'all are recommending guns at the top of the food chain. For my purposes is this really necessary?

    If I "settle" for something like Stag or CMMG or Bushmaster, do I get a truly dog of a gun, or is it like settling for a Remington 700 instead of a Dakota Arms?
    If you aren't going to spend the money for a tier one gun and cheap out and buy the Stag, Bushmaster, etc plan on making investments in the future:

    -gas key will need staked

    -you may have to upgrade the extractor with a new kit (many will tell you to just ditch the whole bolt because it isn't MPI, etc. but if nobody's life is on the line with it, keep it and replace it WHEN it fails)

    -after-market stocks aren't going to fit the commercial buffer-tubes so you may have to replace it if you want a different stock

    -your chamber may or may not be 5.56 NATO and you may not be able to run 5.56 ammo through it. The remedy is to have the chamber reamed by a competent smith so that you will be able to run both kinds of ammunition.



    From what I've seen, CMMG makes some of the better second tier AR15s. Their barrels are good and have NATO chambers. I've seen several BCGs from them that have been staked properly and some that haven't. I do believe they give you the option of an M16 BCG that has a black insert. CMMG also allows you to somewhat customize the gun on ordering. You can get middy gas systems, different stocks/grips, and have quad rails installed. For the price of a factory CMMG, though, you can add $200 and get a Colt 6920.

    If you do want to put it together yourself, I highly recommend buying whatever lower you can find, a quality LPK, a Bravo Company stock kit, LMT rear sight, and waiting for Bravo to get F/A BCGs and BCM uppers in stock. You'll end up with a GREAT carbine and have a few hundred less than the Colt in it.
    Last edited by tylerw02; 07-20-09 at 12:43.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerw02 View Post
    If you do want to put it together yourself, I highly recommend buying whatever lower you can find, a quality LPK, a Bravo Company stock kit, LMT rear sight, and waiting for Bravo to get F/A BCGs and BCM uppers in stock. You'll end up with a GREAT carbine and have a few hundred less than the Colt in it.
    I'm obviously no expert(first post), but after months of reading about ARs, this is exactly what I'm planning on doing. Bill, you mention the difference of $800 and $1500, but in reality, if you go the way tyler mentioned, it's really more like a difference of $800 and $950. I'd definitely spend the little bit extra and get the tier 1(BCM).

  4. #14
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    To the best of my knowledge, the USMC does not issue M4's. If you're going to be giving it to him so he can familiarize himself with the weapon he will be issued, then you need to put together a M16A4gery and not an M4gery. I'm just sayin' ...
    Just one of the Shepherd's sheepdogs. Joshua 24:15

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmecapn View Post
    To the best of my knowledge, the USMC does not issue M4's. If you're going to be giving it to him so he can familiarize himself with the weapon he will be issued, then you need to put together a M16A4gery and not an M4gery. I'm just sayin' ...
    Thanks. Good heads up.

  6. #16
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    Bill, a suggestion for you...

    The cost difference between a "substandard" AR and one that meets/exceeds the requirements of the military is quite a bit less than you might think.

    You don't need to settle for anything less.

    Since you are a member here, I suggest the following course of action:

    1. Contact Grant at http://www.gandrtactical.com/
    2. Ask him for the member pricing on the Daniel Defense XV M-4 carbine.
    3. Send him your $ and wait for package to arrive at FFL.
    4. Enjoy new rifle that meets/exceeds the military requirements.

    I am a very loyal and satisfied G&R Tactical customer and recommend them with no reservations whatsoever.

    ~tp

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaglocker View Post
    I think you'll find that most here don't buy into the "just as good as a..." concept when it comes to fighting rifles.
    I do believe the OP was specific that his criteria was not for a "fighting" carbine/rifle. The problem is that we have become so "snooty" here on M4C we can't seem to assist someone with purchasing a reasonable quality firearm that meets a budget. Like it or not, Noveske isn't the answer to everything.

    For the OP's stated needs, he will be looking for a 20" barrelled flattop upper, since his son is going into the Marines. This negates many of the issues associated with the M4, such as buffer weight, carrier type, extractor tension, and castle nut staking. The carrier key needs to be staked properly, of course. For a young man going into the Marines, I'd be happy to do it, if it doesn't come properly done. I have a MOACKS.

    Any stripped lower from a well-known manufacturer will work. The CMT and RRA LPK's are reasonably priced and will meet your requirements. I have no clue where to tell you to get your buttstock, as all of mine are collapsible, but I'll bet you could find some good used ones for a reasonable price on the 'net. As for the upper, I would suggest going with a complete upper, if possible. Stay with the upper end of the tier 2 manufacturers such as Superior Arms, RRA, Stag, or CMMG. 4140 steel for the barrel will suffice, as will a 1/9 twist rate. Although, if possible, I would go with a 1/7 twist. Your optics will be another story. I don't know of anyone who makes a decent TA31 ACOG clone. But then, I don't know if the USMC teaches the use of the ACOG right off the bat, so a decent quality removable carry handle may be in order. You can find reasonably priced used Colt handles on the 'net. My local dealer even got a bunch in stock.

    All that being said, BCM is an excellent value for the dollar. However, I have had good luck with RRA. I have four of their uppers and have never had any issues running M193 or M855 ball through any of them. I even put Mk262 Mod1 through one of them and it was quite accurate and no pressure issues. They are all M4gery's however, which I did the standard staking of the carrier key, replaced the extractor spring, and staked the castle nut. I have shot as much as 300 rounds in under an hour through my RRA's, without issues, so for the purposes of the OP, it would be a reasonable choice.

    I hope that helps.
    Just one of the Shepherd's sheepdogs. Joshua 24:15

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmecapn View Post
    ... Like it or not, Noveske isn't the answer to everything.
    FYI - the word Noveske was not in this thread until you put it here.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmecapn View Post
    To the best of my knowledge, the USMC does not issue M4's. If you're going to be giving it to him so he can familiarize himself with the weapon he will be issued, then you need to put together a M16A4gery and not an M4gery. I'm just sayin' ...
    FYI - the Marines in Afghanistan are using M4's... lots of them.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango-papa View Post
    FYI - the Marines in Afghanistan are using M4's... lots of them.
    I knew joining this forum would get me in trouble. Now I'm going to have to buy two guns, an A4 and an M4. (Now I need to think about how to discuss this with my wife . . . )

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