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Thread: Rejection Rates for tested tier 1 AR15 parts

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmer View Post
    No apologies necessary. This is interesting. I want to know, too.

    For example, if testing barrels is SUCH a big deal, then why can't anybody give us a ballpark figure regarding how many barrels fail?! Yes, it DOES make a difference. Are 5% flawed? 50%? 0.5%?

    Bimmer
    Oh, I can take a WAG if you like. I would say that about .3% of the barrels and bolts that are HPT/MP'd fail.


    C4

  2. #22
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    why does acceptance rate matter?

    if they say that barrels have 50% failure rates... who cares. as long as you're in the 50% good barrel.
    www.cpra.ph
    Cebu Pistol and Rifle Association

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerw02 View Post
    Thanks. These questions have plagued me for some time. This would also provide good insight to the comparable quality (or lack there of) of tier two guns relative to top tier.
    They don't plague me at all because I'm generally not buying from companies that cut that many corners in the first place. I don't see why people get worked up over this.

  4. #24
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    There seems to be an influx of "Tier" speak recently.
    The whole "Tier" designation is flawed from the outset, thus the preference here for the comparison chart and observed failures.
    Funny thing, the guns that are the most likely to fail in high volume training are the ones with the lowest quality of components and least amount of testing of those components.
    Hmmm.
    Jack Leuba
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    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceriley View Post
    why does acceptance rate matter?

    if they say that barrels have 50% failure rates... who cares. as long as you're in the 50% good barrel.
    It matters because some companies allow defects. Other companies allow none. Which company would you want to buy a barrel & bolt from???

    C4

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    It matters because some companies allow defects. Other companies allow none. Which company would you want to buy a barrel & bolt from???

    C4
    By that do you mean companies that properly test their parts like Colt or BCM, or companies that batch test like DPMS and RRA?

    I see where tylerw02 is going with this and I would like to find out myself if for nothing more than to satisfy my curiosity, but on the other hand as long as you buy tested parts what does it matter?
    I like girl scout cookies.

  7. #27
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    then don't buy from companies that allow defects.

    if that is your statement then the issue is not about defect rate but company reliability.
    www.cpra.ph
    Cebu Pistol and Rifle Association

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    There seems to be an influx of "Tier" speak recently.
    The whole "Tier" designation is flawed from the outset, thus the preference here for the comparison chart and observed failures.
    Funny thing, the guns that are the most likely to fail in high volume training are the ones with the lowest quality of components and least amount of testing of those components.
    Hmmm.
    That is absolutely true. But what are the accept/reject thresholds? They can test all they want without saying where something is too low quality to be accepted. For instance, will BCM and Colt reject exactly the same part or do they accept different levels of variance? Or are we to assume a bolt from Colt=BCM=Daniel Defense?

    Once again, because something isn't individually tested, we cannot know for sure if it would or wouldn't pass tests; therefore the rejection rate could be useful to know the likelihood an untested part is flawed. The SWAG guesstimate given above of 0.3% would suggest that three in 1,000 would fail the test. Then one must consider how often the part would fail even if it doesn't meet spec.

    That also brings up a good question, of parts failures, how common is it that shot peen, MPI, or HPT would have prevented the failure as opposed to the problem being from something such as the wrong extractor spring/insert, poor staking, .223 chamber as opposed to 5.56, or the wrong buffer? How common is it for barrels to fail? This type of stuff could be very useful to new guys to help them determine WHAT is most important and to know the likelihood of failures of different examples of AR15s. I didn't start this thread to convince people to use inferior parts or to allow apologies for lower tier AR15s; rather to expose what corners being cut will cost the user more reliability and function. What compromises can and cannot be made for the budget-conscious shooter.
    Last edited by tylerw02; 07-21-09 at 02:22.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceriley View Post
    then don't buy from companies that allow defects.

    if that is your statement then the issue is not about defect rate but company reliability.
    All parts are flawed. Quality is a determination of which is less flawed; which has acceptable flaws.

  10. #30
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    I often wonder what happens to parts that don't pass inspection, but appear cosmetically good.

    Are "fail" parts returned to the manufacturer, thrown in the trash, other?

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