KISS rifle Mandatory Upgrades/Mods

[rob_s]

there is a difference between using what an instructor says of does to make a point by explaining their rationale behind same and simply posting a picture and saying "these guys look like me".

[Failure2Stop]

I view a practical rifle (I abhor the term KISS in most of its incantations) as featuring the most efficient means to solve as many problems as realistically necessary.

What is the most efficient method of aiming in the most encountered lighting?
Red-dot sight, no/1X magnification.
What red-dot sight can be left on for immediate use in any of those lighting conditions?
Aimpoint
What do I need to be able to find a threat in my home and discriminate between a guy with knife in his hand or my buddy with a beer in hand?
Light
What is the most efficient method of moving while having a light at immediate access?
Stick it to the gun.

To me, these are the minimums. Capability can be expanded with the addition of more items or specialty items, but anything less is a definite disadvantage.

[Fire_Medic]

I too set out for this rifle to build something basic, and seek out training and then let the rifle evolve as I do with my use of it.

My first AR I had last year I bought because it was a good bang for the buck. I use to have a S&W M&P 15T. It was a great rifle, but had a lot of stuff I did not need, I just bought into all the mall ninja stuff.

About a month ago I happened to be in a situation to buy/build/piece together a rifle to replace the one I unfortunately needed to sell last year. I had planned on doing this next year after returning from basic training, but the opportunity presented itself, so I took advantage of it.

I had always wanted a mid length rifle, and BCM comes to mind as a no brainer to fit that bill for producing a product of good quality and for a reasonable price. I then found out they were making lowers and decided to bite the bullet and build/piece together a basic BCM middy for myslef.

I got some parts in today and it received a little face lift, but as it stands here's the info:

BCM 16 inch midlength upper
FDE Hand Guards
Troy/BCM logo Rear BUIS
BCM Complete Lower with MOE trigger guard (came on the lower)
VLTOR EMOD FDE (balances out the middy very well)
Magpul MIAD Grip
BCM F/A BCG
And an assortment of USGI and PMAGS
BFG sling (en route)

For the $$ I have into this I could have bought something else, but it wouldn't have been as good in quality (most likely, not saying not possible) and it just wouldn't have been what I wanted also.

I plan to start attending a lot of classes from here on out because shooting has become my hobby and I've been reloading since 1Q this year.

This is what works for me right now, Jeff and Rob have both been a great help throughout the entire process, and the rifle can continue to evolve with me going forward. I still have plans for a light an optic, and then just ammo and training. A rail (if I add one) will come later on. I see no sense in a rail at this point when I'm not gonna hang anything on it, and I'd rather get an optic first anyways.

I sat down and was realistic with what "I" would be using the rifle for, and with the help of 2 great guys this is what I came up with.


I just think sometimes too much info could be a bad thing for a new comer and that tends to happen a lot on the internet.

This isn't the coolest looking rig or anything, but I'm not in an AR beauty contest either. I wanted something decent looking and reliable and I think I have met that goal. This rifle will 100% serve "MY" needs well.


Sorry for the rant, just my $0.02, here's an updated pic.

[Jay Cunningham]

A little background...

I carried a “KISS” rifle for 12 years, from an A1 to an A2 and even an A2 carbine. It had nothing other then a 2pt parade sling, maybe a top sling adapter if I were lucky enough to find one in the surplus store.

I’ve also carried some more “complex” rifles. The most “tricked out” one, had a folding front sight(they just put it on there, I didn’t want it)KAC rail, VFG, 9volt SureFire, VITAL 2 laser, Aimpoint M2, PRI latch, Tango Down pistol grip, VTAC and later a VCAS sling.

While, one can make do with the so called kiss carbine, there is no way I’d go back to one by choice.

You see a lot of this in the 1911 world also.

Bells, whistles, add-on’s, etc? This denotes an almost trivial nature to them. Phrases like “everything you need and nothing you don’t”, etc. Also get tossed around alot. Some one will make that comment about a gun, that pretty much has everything you can do to the gun.

Well what is left?
If most consider a light and Optic mandatory, maybe a vfg, what else can someone be tempted to "hang” on his rail? IR lasers don’t come cheap. A visible laser? Some very switched on individuals advocate them. So what one more item, a laser of some sort, thats what this is all about?

Awhile back I took a class by Jim Smith, of BlackHawk down fame, after talking to his AI, we pretty much determined that the only real drawback to a FF rail, was cost. With some real benefits.
Which brings me to the comment about citing what instructors teach or say. Isn’t that why we go to the class in the first place? Relaying that info is now a bad thing?
If most of us relied solely on our own experience, we’d have not much more then a swiss army knife to defend ourselves. They bring insight, that we don’t have, and allow us to see things from a different perspective.

I can’t help but think there is a certain amount of “reverse elitism” going on. Where as some people thought they were looked down upon if they did not have a 2500 dollar gun, some people now assume you are a wanna be if you do.

Lets leave the peripheral arguments out of it for a second.
If you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it, move on.
If you won’t train, you won’t train, move on.
If you have no need or don’t know how to use the “add-on” you don’t know, move on.
All that is not a reflection on the gun itself, but just the shooter. A shooter that can’t take advantage of an Aimpoint, does not make the Aimpoint bad.
Either your switched on or your not.

In the above mentioned class, the main benefit of the FF tube, was the lack of shift in zero, when resting the weapon on cover, or applying tension with a sling, and I would assume a VFG, (they did not advocate them). They noted significant shifts in impact, how much someone like me, an average shooter would notice, I don’t know. But when I had the money, I decided to change to a FF tube. I also like the ability to push my light further out front, so I could grasp the rifle further out front.

It was observed, that many officers shoot no better at “CQB” ranges with an optic then with irons. Maybe, I usually shoot tighter groups with irons then a 4moa Aimpoint, but... what the Aimpoint offers you, is the ability to get on your sights much quicker, and easier , when shooting from non standard positions, rollover/sbu prone, officer down drills, around cover, etc. Also consider the use of a pro-mask. All possible with out the Aimpoint, much easier with it though.

In the end, what many people are arguing as a “KISS” rifle, is the same thing as the non kiss rifle, just arrived at somewhat differently.

A quality rifle, with a quality optic, quality white light, quality sling, quality spare mags and parts, and quality training. How you get there is almost irrelevant.

Bob

Great post!

[Cameron]

The_Katar you are right, R Moran hit the nail on the head.

I saw a list one time of something to the effect of "cliches that, when used, automatically declare the user the loser". Citing what professional trainers do instead of explaining your own rationale should be on that list.

there is a difference between using what an instructor says of does to make a point by explaining their rationale behind same and simply posting a picture and saying "these guys look like me".

Quoting specious lists of cliches that automatically declare your opponent a loser makes you look like you may be grasping at straws. We can discuss it until we are blue in the face, but the moment we provide examples of the more respected names in firearms training who seem to agree than adding a rail, VFG, light and RDS to a carbine don't make it a overly complex, heavy deterrent to training we automatically lose??? Rob, your logic is lacking a little here.

I made my case well enough for others here to understand, perhaps not agree with, but understand nonetheless. Reminding them, with a photo, that some of the more respected trainers appear to agree with me only bolsters my argument.

Which brings me to the comment about citing what instructors teach or say. Isn’t that why we go to the class in the first place? Relaying that info is now a bad thing?
If most of us relied solely on our own experience, we’d have not much more then a swiss army knife to defend ourselves. They bring insight, that we don’t have, and allow us to see things from a different perspective.

Exactly right. When we are discussing what enhances the utility of a defensive carbine we should look to the experiences of others who are qualified and use that information gained, within our own parameters and budget.

I can’t help but think there is a certain amount of “reverse elitism” going on. Where as some people thought they were looked down upon if they did not have a 2500 dollar gun, some people now assume you are a wanna be if you do.

This is not that only site that has the trend as you describe. I can understand making the case that a box stock 6920 is an extremely capable weapon, and does not NEED a FF rail, but this pedantic assertion that adding a rail or a short dot to your rifle means there will now be some deficiency in training or mindset is rubbish and, like R Moran, says is probably coming from emotion and ego, rather than logic and a rational approach.

Cameron

[Submariner]

*The standard trigger guard leaves a gap that can rub your finger raw when shooting without gloves. In my hot and humid environment you get drenched with sweat and it reaps havock on the middle finger. Installation of a Magpul enhanced trigger guard would solve this.

So will a $3 Gapper. KISS

[R Moran]

So will a $3 Gapper. KISS

See, right there, I don't see how its all that different..

I can add a part, regardless of how easy or cheap it is, its an extra part...

or....

I can replace a part, regardless, its still more money and labor...

Perhaps it comes down to how you define "simple".

Bob

[Zirk208]

Whenever I'm having a slow boring day, I like to find a thread like this and read it from start to finish. This is right up there with the: 9mm vs. .45, DI vs. Piston, and Boxers vs. Briefs threads. With that said, here's my $0.02.

To me a KISS rife is one in which you can justify each addition/subtraction you make to it. What may be seen as gimmicks or necessities by others may not be seen as such to you. It is one which fulfills YOUR needs. Wheter it's a $2500 tricked out Cats Pajamas Noveske or a $500 Frankengun. There are far too many perspectives and opinions that raise too many hackles on the boards here. Gather all the info you can here from reputable members, then find what works FOR YOU. You get to define what KISS means.

...YMMV

[87GN]

All of my functional rifles have the following:

White light (Surefire G2 LED or X300)
Sling (Vickers VCAS)
Optic (Aimpoint CompM2, EOTech 552, Trijicon TR24)

I consider them to be as simple as functional gets.

I like rails because I like grippy rail covers, but I needed the money to pay bills so I sold my DD Lites and KAC RASs.

Here is one, though without a sling in this pic:

[tylerw02]

So will a $3 Gapper. KISS

Wouldn't one part to do a job rather than two be simpler?