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Thread: Carbon Removal tip

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennith13 View Post
    Any carbon at all is too dirty on a firearm this finicky. The cleaner it is, the better it runs.
    Why didn't my rifle get finicky at the last class I took?

    Nothing wrong with a clean rifle, but there's nothing wrong with a dirty rifle either. There's only something wrong with a dry rifle.

    ETA: Saw the posts that went up while I was typing mine. And sure, for storage and longevity getting it clean is fantastic. But the posts that prompted mine were along the lines of "An AR must be white glove clean, or else it will malfunction like it did in Vietnam...."
    Last edited by thopkins22; 07-28-09 at 10:21.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Katar View Post
    For those of you stating that carbon on the bolt is some type of major issue - has this ever caused a malfunction in your AR? Can you explain why someone like Ken Elmore (who has forgotten more about maintaining AR's than most people actually know) states in his AR-15 armorer class that carbon on the bolt is not a big deal?
    And Dean Caputo, and all the other Colt armorer instructors, and carbine instructors with fleets of guns that get shot heavily and rarely cleaned (just lubed), etc.

    There is still a lot of early Vietnam-era baggage that is stuck on this family of weapons that is no longer valid.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrowne1 View Post
    And Dean Caputo, and all the other Colt armorer instructors, and carbine instructors with fleets of guns that get shot heavily and rarely cleaned (just lubed), etc.

    There is still a lot of early Vietnam-era baggage that is stuck on this family of weapons that is no longer valid.

    "...fleets of guns..." is a key phrase here. They can swap stuff out, get another bolt easily I'm sure, etc.

    I don't have that option. I'd prefer my relatively not-easily-replenishable gear to be kept in top-notch condition.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    "...fleets of guns..." is a key phrase here. They can swap stuff out, get another bolt easily I'm sure, etc.

    I don't have that option. I'd prefer my relatively not-easily-replenishable gear to be kept in top-notch condition.
    Right, most folks feel the same way about taking care of what they've paid for. But don't imply that failing to do that will cause your properly functioning rifle to turn into a malfunctioning POS.
    Last edited by thopkins22; 07-28-09 at 10:28.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by thopkins22 View Post
    Right, most folks feel the same way about taking care of what they've paid for. But don't imply that failing to do that will cause your properly functioning rifle to turn into a malfunctioning POS.
    If you read what I wrote in previous posts I specifically said that only in an extreme scenario would excessive carbon build-up possibly affect function.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  6. #26
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    ABNAK.Like a post was made before on this thread, their are MANY people with waaay more time with this system then you will ever have.You are WRONG in every aspect of your post's.

  7. #27
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    i keep my guns clean because i see it as part of maintaining or taking care of something i own, like anything else. if i have time to go to the range, i have time to clean my guns. i've noticed a recent trend towards making fun of people who want to keep their weapons clean, telling them that they're wasting their time and that all that's needed to keep an AR running is keeping it wet/well lubricated.

    that may be true, but i don't see anything wrong in starting out with a clean weapon, if you have the time to clean it, or want to. we've all seen ARs slow down when dirty (all around - not just the back of the bolt), because they weren't properly lubricated. the gas rings start dragging etc. squirting lube on the bolt fixes that until it's burned off again. let me stress again that i have never experienced an AR slowing down just because of carbon build up on the bolt tail; but because of carbon/debris in the entire system; gas rings etc. when the lube burns off or dries, the sludge starts to harden up. the more sludge, the more sluggish.
    but my question is: given the same amount of lubrication, will a clean gun run longer than a dirty one until the next squirt of lube is needed? in my very limited experience, i've found that a dry/unlubed bolt will go for longer than a dry/unlubed dirty one that is all carboned up with dried sludge all over it.
    what if you don't have the luxury of lubing the gun - you've run out of lube, misplaced it, it's not on you, you're too busy shooting at the enemy etc? that's of little consequence to us recreational, hobbyist shooters, but could make a difference to a person whose life depends on his weapon functioning. if the key to keeping the system running is keeping it lubricated, i'd ask myself - what happens to it when i can't, for some reason?
    if i can go an extra 20 rounds on a clean bolt vs. a dirty one, all things being equal, i'd rather have that in my pocket.
    IMHO, there's no negative conseqeuence to doing proper/correct, routine maintenance on a weapon, and people shouldn't be discouraged from doing so if they want to or have the time to, or their lives depend on it, as long as their maintenance routine is not excessive or damaging to the weapon.
    Last edited by militarymoron; 07-28-09 at 11:19.

  8. #28
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    Many people here know far more than I do about this platform. That being said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a clean gun. If there was, they'd send 'em to you dirty.

    I keep my guns clean as a whistle, and well lubed. They run just fine. What gets my goat is when I hear people saying stuff like "I'm not cleaning it because I want to see how long it goes until it fails".... and for hells sake, it's their carry gun!! Makes me want to slap the stupid out of them.

    A gun may run just fine dirty, just like underwear might work just fine with a few skidmarks, but I think I'll stick to keeping 'em clean. There's just something to be said about a clean gun, and clean underwear.
    Time flies when you throw your watch.

  9. #29
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    entropy. if you assume that a gun that goes uncleaned can be shot enough so that it malfunctions, and that a gun that is unfired and perfectly clean is theoretically at the other end of this process, then you simply have to decide how far along this line you feel comfortable maintaining your weapon.

    is it a few rounds, or a few hundred, or a few thousand before reliability is affected? I don't know.

    some say the carbon build up is self limiting. probably is. but there is evidence that left unchecked indefinitely will allow corrosion under the buildup.

    personally, I didn't learn to shoot at some school or in the service. I learned from my dad when I was young enough that he was the smartest person in the whole world. after shooting we would religiously clean every firearm down to tiniest nook and cranny. but those guns were blued carbon steel with wood stocks, and every one of them are worth a lot more today than they were when they were new.

    to me, a weapon is a tool. and I defer to those with more experience. and if they say the AR, if adequately lubed, doesn't need to be cleaned after every session to function properly, I believe them and abide.

    but very once in a while, somewhere deep in my mind, I still feel the need to "deepclean" my weapons and it's very therapeutic for me, if not actually for the weapon itself....
    never push a wrench...

  10. #30
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    Pat Rogers says overcleaning has damaged more guns that lack of cleaning.

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