Trijicon TR24 & co-witness problem

[9Y10C]

Just mounted new Trijicon Accupoint TR24-3G (1-4x24 German #4 Crosshair with green dot) and Larue LT104 QD on my Colt 6940. Unable to view co-witness because the front sight appears to be magnified even when scope is on lowest setting of "1x." This optic is said to be true one-power, but looks like the glass makes objects very close-up (such as front iron) to be larger. Anybody else experience this with the Trijicon or other 1-4x scopes?

[matthewdanger]

Co-witnessing will only work with a non-magnified optic (Aimpoint, EOTech, etc). It does not work with 1x optics. The good news is that there is nothing wrong with your Accupoint.

[BooneGA]

Just mounted new Trijicon Accupoint TR24-3G (1-4x24 German #4 Crosshair with green dot) and Larue LT104 QD on my Colt 6940. Unable to view co-witness because the front sight appears to be magnified even when scope is on lowest setting of "1x." This optic is said to be true one-power, but looks like the glass makes objects very close-up (such as front iron) to be larger. Anybody else experience this with the Trijicon or other 1-4x scopes?

You arent going to be able to co-witness through any variable power scope. The image that your eye is seeing is effectively being seen from the far end of the tube. That is why your front site appears larger. At any range thats not a few feet infront of the end of the tube the scope will be 1x + the 4-5 inches that the scope is forward.

Rick

[9Y10C]

You arent going to be able to co-witness through any variable power scope. The image that your eye is seeing is effectively being seen from the far end of the tube. That is why your front site appears larger. At any range thats not a few feet infront of the end of the tube the scope will be 1x + the 4-5 inches that the scope is forward.

Rick

Co-witnessing will only work with a non-magnified optic (Aimpoint, EOTech, etc). It does not work with 1x optics. The good news is that there is nothing wrong with your Accupoint.

Thanks Rick & Matt. You have cleared it up for me in reality. I had presumed from the marketing statements and reviews on the optic that "true 1x" meant that at the lowest setting all visuals would be actual size and not magnified at any distance. Since no Trijicon scopes of this type were available to view, I had experienced Leupold and other one-power variables which did appear to magnify, even at 1x settings. I was dismayed, thinking that true 1-x would be the same as my Aimpoint M4. Not to be. Other than its magnification of very close-up objects, the TR24 is of high quality and the glass clarity, even at max power, is great. The diopter adjustment is also beneficial as opposed to the Aimpoint 3x with no diopter adjustment. I'm anxious to compare sight picture, quickness at CQ drills, and accuracy with my Aimpoint (which due to my old eyes gives me dot-blooming, particularly when using 3x magnifier behind it). The following is quote from Trijicon.

Trijicon AccuPoint® 1-4x24 Riflescope

This variable riflescope features true 1x (and up to 4x) magnification with a straight 30mm tube, enabling consistent eye relief at all magnifications. 


True 1x magnification enables close-in shots for tactical shooters, law-enforcement professionals and safari dangerous game hunters 
30mm tube offers greater adjustment range and a variety of mounting options 
Choice of several post and crosshair reticle options 
Battery-free dual-illuminated reticle (lit with fiber optics and tritium) provides lightning-fast target acquisition and pinpoint accuracy in any light 
Multi-layer coated lenses for superior clarity with zero distortion 
Rugged, aircraft-quality aluminum body that is waterproof to depths of 10 feet

[BooneGA]

I have no doubt it will be very fast for you. I havent used the TR24 yet, but if its anywhere near as bright as the 21s it should be very quick onto target. I put a little under 2k through my Short Dot this week, its been over 100 and bright sunny the whole time and I was just as fast as any of the Aimpoint or EOtech guys.

I dont have too much trigger time behind the trijicons, but as long as the eye relief is forgiving and you get alot of practice doing presentations it should do 99% of what an Aimpoint is capable of. And with the added zoom you can really lay the hate down at longer ranges.

I found myself being able to crank of the magnification to 1.5-2 at 25-50 yards and still get hits moving laterally. As we backed further out I simply dialed up the power and was shooting just as well as the guys rocking ACOGs (who were hurting up close, I am NOT a fan of the BAC or whatever they call it).

I have no doubt that the TR24 would be able to provide you the same advantages. If I didnt like the BDC and the reticle of the S&B it would have definately been my 1st choice.

Rick

[Razorhunter]

The absolute ultimate TR24 for me, would be one with the standard TA31 RCO M4 ACOG chevron reticle w/ BDC ladder for various ranges.
I just cannot bring myself to like the "German Crosshair" reticle at all. That tritium dot is TINY, TINY, and when shooting fast, on the move, I can barely see it at all.
When shooting slow, precision fire, it's ok, but then you have NO ranging capabilities, as you do with the ACOG's BDC ladder.
The triangle post reticle on the TR24 is OK, at closer ranges, but when you crank up the power, you have no precision reticle to work with, and once again, you are left without any type of BDC ranging reticle.
SO, I am disappointed in the reticle options the TR24 offers.
Otherwise, aside from the reticle options, I love everything else about the TR24 Accupoints.

I just wish Trijicon would put a chevron reticle with the standard BDC ladder design into the TR24's. THEN it would be a WINNER all around, at all distances.
I heard something about the Chevron/BDC reticle not even being possible in the TR24's. Has anyone else heard this?
Can anyone confirm the chevron w/BDC reticle as NOT being physically possible to use in the TR24 Accupoint optics?

[LOKNLOD]

I'd just be happy if I could buy a TR24G or TR24R at all! My window for getting it in time for class is fast closing.

I just wish Trijicon would put a chevron reticle with the standard BDC ladder design into the TR24's. THEN it would be a WINNER all around, at all distances.
I heard something about the Chevron/BDC reticle not even being possible in the TR24's. Has anyone else heard this?
Can anyone confirm the chevron w/BDC reticle as NOT being physically possible to use in the TR24 Accupoint optics?

I don't know that it's impossible, but I wonder perhaps that combination of features would require more than putting in a different reticle, i.e., changing the entire design of the scope.

Its been a long time since I sold my TR21 in hopes of buying a TR24 "soon" (HA! ) but IIRC they are a 2nd focal plane design so the reticle stays the same size to your eye as you zoom in and out, but therefore changes size relative to the target. That's not the end of the world, but it would mean the BDC reticle would only work at 1 setting (presumably the highest, which would be workable) but would then make for a bit of a cluttered view at low mag, when you'd really want the least crap in your line of sight.

Changing the scope design to first focal plane would require a lot of changes I'm sure (and presumably some higher costs) and in order for the reticle to be a desirable size up close on 1x, it might be too large at 4x for precision shooting, or vice versa, so that may not be a desirable setup for this type of scope either.

What I would like to see, and I think it's feasible, would be to incorporate a small LED into the blackout ring that can be rotated to cover the fiber optic. When turned off, it would still blackout the fiber, and when turned on, it would illuminate the fiber optic no matter the external lighting conditions. I think the light gathering properties of the fiber optic work well enough that the lighting module could be very small lightweight and efficient, especially with the advances made in LEDs lately, and best of all I think it could be done with only a modification to that external ring and no changes to the scope body itself.

All that being said, I don't work for Trijicon nor am I an optics designer so I may be full of crap regarding all of the above.

[9Y10C]

Ran some rounds with the Trijicon TR24-3G yesterday. It is an impressive optic and I zeroed it at 50yds. Acquires target quickly at close range when set at 1x. Unless you pay close attention to cheek weld, it does want to create a "straw effect" and tends to close down the sight picture. IMO at close ranges, it does not perform as well as my Aimpoint M4 RDS in giving an open, unobstructed picture (even when the eye is not truly centered in the Aimpoint). However, the TR24 aperture dot does surpass the Aimpoint in remaining perfectly round and clear (for my eyes) while the M4 will bloom and have a comet tail even at low intensity settings.

The TR24's strength is in its variable magnification feature. For me, it absolutely is superior to the Aimpoint at distance (I also have a 3x magnifier behind the M4). Although my range would only allow me to shoot at 125 yds max, I can imagine that the TR24 would perform very well at greater distances because of its clarity of glass and aperture picture at 4x. The diopter adjustment (which the Aimpoint 3x lacks) allowed my poor old eyes to see the target clearly and the sight picture gets even better at 4x because the target is magnified, while the dot and crosshairs remain actual size and appear smaller against the target. My OP regarding not being able to cowitness with this optic has now become of little concern to me. I'm sold on the variable 1-4x feature which increases the usefullness of the weapon.

[Bronco]

How compatible is the TR 24 with a rifle such as the DD M4 and its fixed front sight? Is it necessary to mount the optic above the sight tower completely, or is the sight picture not adversely affected with a lower mounting height?

[JHC]

The FSB of your DD rifle won't matter IMO. I have a fixed front sights on several rifles which I commonly use a Nikon 1-4 mounted with a LT-139 SPR-E and even at 1x the front sight is not any distraction at all when you focus on putting your recticle on target.
No worries.