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Thread: Form 1 -"overall length"

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CleverNickname View Post
    27 CFR 479.11 states "The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore." The ATF interprets "extreme ends of the weapon" to mean all stocks are extended or unfolded to their maximum length.
    Awesome, thanks for finding it!!! I guess my forms are off by a couple inches on OAL.

    Page 89 righthand column, under "Firearms (h)":

    http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr479.11.pdf
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 08-04-09 at 21:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CleverNickname View Post
    27 CFR 479.11 states "The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore." The ATF interprets "extreme ends of the weapon" to mean all stocks are extended or unfolded to their maximum length.
    With all due respect, did you call ATF and get that decision or interpret it from the info you quoted? Having had my hand slapped on more than one occasion by the ATF when I followed a form to the letter, I tend to want to err on the side of caution, to me that would be collapsed on a carbine style stock on the AR platform.

    Short is the operative word here. If they weren't interested in concealability then we could happily make them as short as we wanted. It may never be an issue but then again... A call would work and is the best solution if you are undecided.
    Peace, Jerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    Awesome, thanks for finding it!!! I guess my forms are off by a couple inches on OAL.
    Would that include the flash hider then? This is one of those questions that grows with the information brought forth.
    Peace, Jerry

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireglock View Post
    With all due respect, did you call ATF and get that decision or interpret it from the info you quoted? Having had my hand slapped on more than one occasion by the ATF when I followed a form to the letter, I tend to want to err on the side of caution, to me that would be collapsed on a carbine style stock on the AR platform.

    Short is the operative word here. If they weren't interested in concealability then we could happily make them as short as we wanted. It may never be an issue but then again... A call would work and is the best solution if you are undecided.
    The language is very clear, and I do recall at least one letter from ATF Tech or Director stating same...

    It would include flash suppressor and end of extended stock, apparently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    Awesome, thanks for finding it!!! I guess my forms are off by a couple inches on OAL.
    Except...

    "The ATF interprets "extreme ends of the weapon" to mean all stocks are extended or unfolded to their maximum length."

    Is not expressly stated in 27 CFR 479.11. It does state "The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore."

    The ATF interprets "extreme ends of the weapon" to mean all stocks are extended or unfolded to their maximum length. May be correct, but I have not found that in any of the definitions.

    I have to believe someone has had this question before me, and called the ATF.

    I would guess it not really a big deal as:
    a) They can probably figure you AOL by what your stated barrel length as (in regards to building an AR).
    b) Being an SBR any length is permissible, as any rifle less than 26" is by definition an SBR.
    Last edited by RojasTKD; 08-04-09 at 21:09.

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    <<snip>>
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 08-04-09 at 21:14.

  7. #27
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    I guess "EXTREME" ends could mean stock completely extended. At least untill someone changes their minds.
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 08-04-09 at 21:16.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RojasTKD View Post
    Except...
    The version I posted above is from 2006, maybe if there is a 2009 version out there?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    The version I posted above is from 2006, maybe if there is a 2009 version out there?
    I've been searching and can only come up with the same information as already posted. My interpretation of extreme ends of the weapon would be to have the stock fully extended, extreme being the key word. I doubt the BATFE and I agree on all definitions but I'm sure if you call them and speak to 3 different agents you'll probably get at least 2 different answers

  10. #30
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    revised April 1, 2009

    http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr479.11.htm

    Says basically the same thing. Doesn't mention how the ATF interprets "extreme ends of the weapon".

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