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Thread: Let's talk Comms.

  1. #551
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    DMR has about a 3db advantage over regular FM. Which is effectively like doubling your power or antenna gain.

    In the real world you won't see a doubling of distance due to line of sight. But in flat terrain running simplex it's a noticeable difference.

    As to rights, radio is an shared asset. If the existing regulations for ham radio didn't exist there would not be any ham radio, as every taxi and Mom and Pop business would have just bought Ham radios to use it. How do you know Joe's sewer is not doing business using ham radio? You're able to monitor it.

    There is nothing that stops you from getting an appropriate license where you can run encrypted radios between you and your buddies. But it won't be ham radio it'll be something else.

    This is kind of like an expectation that there should be no traffic laws requiring you to stay in Lanes, have brake lights etc. So you could argue about speeding or such but in general traffic works better because of it is regulated.

    Or like being upset that national parks have restrictions on the activities you can do. Playing frisbee in a meadow is probably an unreasonable thing to restrict. But unregulated / uncontrolled logging or game harvest would destroy the asset.

    As much as we may not like regulation, "spoiling of the commons" is a real dynamic. It's a shared asset. In the privacy of my home or on my own land, that something completely different.

    I am an encryption advocate for much communication and know how to use it on my radios. If the time ever comes that rule of law falls and I need to use it I will. Until then, I really don't care if someone can understand what my buddy and I are talking about on a repeater. Which by the way was paid for by a club most likely, who is tasked by law with operating it within regs and ensuring no illegal activities occur.

    By the way, Motorola will give you great consumer service to customers who are willing to pay their price for their intellectual property. They invented certain technology which has been widely copied/cloned. So as part of their business model they enforce their IP. Even if we think they're jerks about some aspects of it.

    They also sell/sold billions of dollars of consumer stuff. They definitely have a consumer/pro differentiated market with substantially different capabilities, construction, etc. Comparing a pro Motorola handheld with a consumer handheld is even more of a difference than an h&k rifle versus a parts is parts generic one.

    The pro grade radio has capabilities the consumer ones don't. Pay to play.

  2. #552
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    To your private chat question, in general DMR talk groups are like subaudible tone squelch.

    The radio is configured to ignore traffic on other talk groups. But is capable of receiving it if digital monitor is turned on.

    So even "private chat" on DMR could trivially be monitored.

    A DMR "private message" text the private part just pertains to whether it's sent to an individual or a group.

    DMR is a very effective technology and there is some very good inexpensive radios. I use them daily for ham and gmrs. Mostly Chinese but I do have a moto XPR that I got cheap which I love. So in that aspect Moto is like h&k... Better build quality, much more refined software. Just operates more smoothly and crisply.

  3. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinzgauer View Post
    DMR has about a 3db advantage over regular FM. Which is effectively like doubling your power or antenna gain.

    In the real world you won't see a doubling of distance due to line of sight. But in flat terrain running simplex it's a noticeable difference.

    As to rights, radio is an shared asset. If the existing regulations for ham radio didn't exist there would not be any ham radio, as every taxi and Mom and Pop business would have just bought Ham radios to use it. How do you know Joe's sewer is not doing business using ham radio? You're able to monitor it.

    There is nothing that stops you from getting an appropriate license where you can run encrypted radios between you and your buddies. But it won't be ham radio it'll be something else.

    This is kind of like an expectation that there should be no traffic laws requiring you to stay in Lanes, have brake lights etc. So you could argue about speeding or such but in general traffic works better because of it is regulated.

    Or like being upset that national parks have restrictions on the activities you can do. Playing frisbee in a meadow is probably an unreasonable thing to restrict. But unregulated / uncontrolled logging or game harvest would destroy the asset.

    As much as we may not like regulation, "spoiling of the commons" is a real dynamic. It's a shared asset. In the privacy of my home or on my own land, that something completely different.

    I am an encryption advocate for much communication and know how to use it on my radios. If the time ever comes that rule of law falls and I need to use it I will. Until then, I really don't care if someone can understand what my buddy and I are talking about on a repeater. Which by the way was paid for by a club most likely, who is tasked by law with operating it within regs and ensuring no illegal activities occur.

    By the way, Motorola will give you great consumer service to customers who are willing to pay their price for their intellectual property. They invented certain technology which has been widely copied/cloned. So as part of their business model they enforce their IP. Even if we think they're jerks about some aspects of it.

    They also sell/sold billions of dollars of consumer stuff. They definitely have a consumer/pro differentiated market with substantially different capabilities, construction, etc. Comparing a pro Motorola handheld with a consumer handheld is even more of a difference than an h&k rifle versus a parts is parts generic one.

    The pro grade radio has capabilities the consumer ones don't. Pay to play.
    Right, but here’s the thing. Either we advocate for the inclusion of all relevant personal defense liberty securing related mediums, widgets, tech et al or we the public relegate ourselves to being satisfied with the base level of “armaments”.

    Obviously no one here on M4C that the 2A only applies to black powder muskets with respect to small arms and unfortunately we have a hard enough time convincing individuals of the utility of FA, Suppressors, DDs, etc let alone the equivalency of NV, thermal, Armor, or lasers, the latter of which is heavily regulated as we all know. Separate regulatory frameworks of course exist to curtail public ownership and usage that have forever been excluded from civil liberty discussions because let’s be real the FDA doesn’t give a damn about our rights, and never will unless forced to. I love to kick TNVC in the balls and if you follow on over at TOS they even publicly stated they haven’t done much of anything to try and influence industry opinion and that the market should just be happy they brought civ powered MAWLs out for consumption because “use what they use”

    Point is comms shouldn’t be treated any differently and should be included in the conversation like anything else.

    The government as an entity hates the BoR because it constrains enforcement and regulatory action. Let’s be real if the FCC hates HAM and civilian radio usage because if they had their way they’d sell out the ENTIRE spectrum to the telecom super conglomerates and tell the public to pound sand, conglomerates of which by the way include the likes of Motorola so they can absolutely go stick a rusty fork in their eye and die from tetanus.

    In the end comms and and comm gear should be treated the same as small arms and promoted as equally important.

    #minisoapboxmoment


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  4. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpmuscle View Post
    Right, but here’s the thing. Either we advocate for the inclusion of all relevant personal defense liberty securing related mediums, widgets, tech et al or we the public relegate ourselves to being satisfied with the base level of “armaments”.

    Obviously no one here on M4C that the 2A only applies to black powder muskets with respect to small arms and unfortunately we have a hard enough time convincing individuals of the utility of FA, Suppressors, DDs, etc let alone the equivalency of NV, thermal, Armor, or lasers, the latter of which is heavily regulated as we all know. Separate regulatory frameworks of course exist to curtail public ownership and usage that have forever been excluded from civil liberty discussions because let’s be real the FDA doesn’t give a damn about our rights, and never will unless forced to. I love to kick TNVC in the balls and if you follow on over at TOS they even publicly stated they haven’t done much of anything to try and influence industry opinion and that the market should just be happy they brought civ powered MAWLs out for consumption because “use what they use”

    Point is comms shouldn’t be treated any differently and should be included in the conversation like anything else.

    The government as an entity hates the BoR because it constrains enforcement and regulatory action. Let’s be real if the FCC hates HAM and civilian radio usage because if they had their way they’d sell out the ENTIRE spectrum to the telecom super conglomerates and tell the public to pound sand, conglomerates of which by the way include the likes of Motorola so they can absolutely go stick a rusty fork in their eye and die from tetanus.

    In the end comms and and comm gear should be treated the same as small arms and promoted as equally important.

    #minisoapboxmoment


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You rock


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  5. #555
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    Theres such great posts in this thread.

    On one side I agree with JP that the 2A needs to start being extended beyond centerfires rifles. But I also see how too much unregulated traffic on the air waves could become a nightmare with the proliferation of cheap and powerful radios.



    @Pinzgauer - check your DM's.
    "Just throw Krylon on it"

  6. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
    Theres such great posts in this thread.

    On one side I agree with JP that the 2A needs to start being extended beyond centerfires rifles. But I also see how too much unregulated traffic on the air waves could become a nightmare with the proliferation of cheap and powerful radios.



    @Pinzgauer - check your DM's.
    Because there’s already an abundance of folks throwing up towers in their backyard and dumping 100 watts onto their local PDs p25 network?


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  7. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpmuscle View Post
    Because there’s already an abundance of folks throwing up towers in their backyard and dumping 100 watts onto their local PDs p25 network?


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    Because there are cities full of wackers "programming" by spoofing affiliated IDs with much worse potential than 100W pirates.

    Preaching to the choir, pastor. Turn around and hit the streets with all that energy.

    But you don't and won't. It's OK. It's too late to do something about it anyway.

    Do what you gotta for the boog and keep your 100W diatribe to your dummy load. Thread S/N ratio and all that.

  8. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpmuscle View Post
    Because there’s already an abundance of folks throwing up towers in their backyard and dumping 100 watts onto their local PDs p25 network?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Oh I'm not saying that there are. And laws won't stop someone like that anyways. In my own very minuscule experience in the woods near towns, using GMRS channels we would get interference and cross channel traffic. Im just assuming that would extrapolate like crazy if there wasn't SOME guidelines for how and why to use a frequency. Dude Im 100% on your team though about civilian encryption.

    After I saw this video it got me thinking on a whole new plane as far as the battle space and tech goes:

    https://youtu.be/Sy1o2Wwwnb4
    "Just throw Krylon on it"

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