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Thread: GunShow Zombie and M&A parts.

  1. #1
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    GunShow Zombie and M&A parts.

    I have been going To the Grand Rapids, MI gunshow since I was a kid, over twenty five years. As long as I can remember there has always been a booth there selling AR parts and uppers. I always blew them off as junk parts dealers,you quickly aquire snob like tendincies when you own a colt and everyone is constantly drooling over your AR( which I no longer own, I had to sell her for rent money). So I have for the past two decades just walked by their booth like a Zombie on a mission to seek out what I needed, ignoring this booth totaly.

    This time was a whole new story. I need, yes NEED an AR, my AR was one thing that made my life on this planet fun. It makes me feel excited like a kid the night before Christmas, I really miss that feeling. I was going to build a BCM middy but don't have the cash yet.

    I stopped in at M&A's booth and to my amazment they had uppers built on LMT, RRA and Sabre uppers! What? How much? Whats the catch? I do private security people lie to me all day, I have a pretty good BS detector. I also am a previous long time Colt owner, I also owned a Olympic for a bit.

    I stood there and drilled the sales person for about a half hour, looked at everything I could think of to look for in an AR. These things looked top notch, why are they so cheap? Granted the one I was looking at had a chrome moly wilson barrel so not to much money into that. Then I got some inside poop.

    Not sure I got the whole story right but I was talking to the owners daughter who is now part owner. She dated the owner of LMT for some time and both companies are from Ill., O.K. Well what does this have to do with it? I guess, LMT and others get parts from M&A for their builds, M&A seems to be a parts wharehouse of sorts. Basically when you buy a M&A upper you get a LMT upper built with their reciever and M&A supplies the rest of the parts for the upper.

    M&A seems to have had alot of drama over the years. But I must say they were super friendly and nice. Maybe the nicest folks I've ever delt with at the gunshow. They had an answere for every question, in detail. Sure as shit never got to ask questions to the owner of colt.

    As for the upper, it looked awsome. Nice finish on the reciever. The bolt carrier is very nice, staked as good as the best production guns I've seen. Parts are all there and, IT'S A MIDDY! Just what I wanted. $500 otd , 16", mid-length, car style but, standared black forarm and grip. I think with some fine tuning she should be able to run a couple classess, can't really see why not. Better shown up with this than my mini-14, man I'ld never live that down with the ahole who invited me to the class.

    So, went home grabbed my mini-14 ,went back to the gunshow. Sold the mini for $500. Walked out with my new fun gun! Well part of it.

    To say the leaste I'm very pleased. I should have a lower within a couple of weeks, a mega gator! I'm going on the cheap so I think I may give magpuls moe grip and stock a try. I want their rear sight and trigger guard also.

    I'm sorry for not having pics at this time. I'll document my progress and post pics, promise! Man I'm geeked to start the build.

    Again thanks for the help!

  2. #2
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    apparently your BS meter isnt as in tune as you thought it was, you just got had brah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Goodtimes View Post
    apparently your BS meter isnt as in tune as you thought it was, you just got had brah.
    I have no dog in this fight but I would appreciate it if you'd expound on that.

    The Revolution will not be televised.

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    Just to settle it before it gets too deep, here is what those guys say:


    Who makes M&A's stuff?

    99% of the folks that call here and ask that question have no clue what the answer "should be". I always wonder~ what answer could I give that would make you happy?

    Easy example- Q: Who makes you barrels? A: Wilson & Mike Rock Barrels.When a caller is seemingly happy with that answer, we remind them that half the world utilizes barrel blanks from Wilson, the other half from Shaw. The real question is: who machines the barrel blanks into the finished product? Ask the other guys these questions, but understand that you must ask the correct question. And- as the attornies know... always know the answer to the question before you ask it!

    Most of our uppers are from Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT).Unless notied otherwise. Our barrels are Wilson Match /Rock /Match Grade 4140 Chrome Moly unless otherwise noted. LMT cuts, finishes and chambers the barrels. LMT assembles, times, headspaces, chambers and function test fires each barreled upper (not every third or fifth one as some suppliers might) and all of the other minor parts included are from current US Govt contract machine shops. The same first-rate US Govt contractor that we have always used for the bolt/carrier assemblies is still our supplier. They prefer anonymity. While we absolutely stand by and attest to the above, know that most of our component parts are "sanitized", that is- without marks, for obvious reasons when you consider the nature of the needs of the larger section of our customer base.

    We do not have a machine shop in a Quonset hut "out back" full of men turning out consumer grade parts. Again- we buy our parts by the pallet from current US Government Contract Parts Houses. Then- a lot of respected rifle manufacturers buy their parts from us. That's why we just smile when someone says, "Don't build a "parts gun", buy one from a rifle company". Truth be known- they're all parts guns.


    Skip this next paragraph if you don't have a Colt lower receiver...

    Sometimes, when Colt has a bad day, they manufacture what is politely called a "large pin lower". Most would call it a reject. They come from a hole drilling placement error, so they just center it up in the right place and drill it out bigger. Instead of a proper .250" diameter hole (as our uppers have), you get a front pivot pin hole in the lower that is .312" diameter. Simple solution? Get the $5 Colt Offset Pin. It will adapt any standard USGI dimensioned upper to any Colt "large pivot pin" lower. When they're really having a bad day, they redrill the .154" hammer/trigger pin holes and create "large pin" hammers, disconnectors and triggers, along with the 2 appropriate .169" large pins to secure them. We don't have the 9mm versions. These are internal parts in the lower, and that's probably a non-issue, as you already have a working set. However, we do have them. If you have a Colt large pin upper and want to mate it to someone's USGI dimensioned lower, we also have the "sleeve" to do that, as well.



    That all stated, I'd say you'd been better off with a BCM and I do not put much faith in these guys' business practices.
    Last edited by tylerw02; 08-07-09 at 14:40.

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    BCM upper, yes I would prefer one to the M&A but for now it will do. I'm sure someday I will build a BCM or find another colt. The BCM is $475 for just the upper no bcg, no parts kit. I'm barely going to be able to build one for what I have into it now. If I went with the BCM I wouldn't be shooting it until the middle of winter.

    As far as no chrome lining it's not really an issue for me. If a put 3000 rounds down the tube in the next couple years I'll be suprised. I am also trying to squeeze as much accuaracy out of the rifle as I can. The first class I may go to only requires 600 rounds over two days, most shooting on the second day.

    My plan is to use the M&A and see how it holds up. If I'm not happy with it I'll build a BCM when money permits..

    I don't think they're being untruthfull about anything. They've been in business for many,many years. You don't stay on business by scamming your customers (short of credit card companines). On visual inspection everything looked very well built. Much nicer than the Olympic arms I owned. Looked alot better than most AR's I've been looking at. Almost reminded me of my colt.

    I don't understand what M&A's website is putting out about Colt, I've never heard that before. Is it all lies?

    Does LMT not make their uppers?

    Wouldn't they be sued over something like that if it wasn't true?

    Dude, they advertise on this forum. Is this forum supporting a company that the members wouldn't use?

    Is there something I should know about M&A?

    Like I said I just spoke with the sales person for a good amount of time on every matter I could think of pertaining to thier aquiring and sourcing out parts and labor. They seemed very squared away.Since I've been searching the net and have found mainly good feedback, even on the lightfighter forum. AR15.com even has a build thread.

    So seariously if there is something I should be concerned with let me know please. Thanks for all input guys.
    Last edited by johnlee; 08-07-09 at 15:14.

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    They are alluding that the reason Colt used to make lowers that accepted .169" was because they were unable to properly drill holes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerw02 View Post
    They are alluding that the reason Colt used to make lowers that accepted .169" was because they were unable to properly drill holes.
    I get that part and yes I think thats messed up. I don't know why they would put that on their website.

    Are they being untruthful about LMT building the upper? They were calling them LMT uppers at the gunshow. The sales person explained that M&A supplies the parts used, LMT uses there own upper and assembles the upper.

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    To call it an LMT "upper" is kind of misleading if one means it in the sense that it is all LMT. Rather its a Wilson/Shaw barrel on an LMT upper receiver.

    To me when a company posts something obviously misleading, as they did about Colt, I can't trust them to tell me the truth about their own product.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterWilson View Post
    I have no dog in this fight but I would appreciate it if you'd expound on that.

    Wilson, the OP is thinking that he got himself what essentially ammounts to an LMT upper, when in reality, his upper has a 4140 Chromoly barrel, and probably doesent have an MP or MPI tested bolt. In reality, his upper he bought is about as far from an LMT upper as you can get with out calling it an oly. also, the stuff tyler posted above pretty much sums it up. Some of what those guys said is true, especially about most guns being parts guns, as most assemblers get their parts from the same places and then brand them with their name. It sounds like most of the rest of that stuff is them talking out of their ass. They sound like some real shady folks.
    Last edited by Mr.Goodtimes; 08-07-09 at 17:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Goodtimes View Post
    They sound like some real shady folks.
    Agreed.

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