Welcome to Florida and the ACLU

[CarlosDJackal]

What's so difficult about keeping prayer out of public school? School usually only runs about 7 hours a day. They have the other 17 hours, weekends, holidays, and all summer to pray as much as they want.

Why is it so hard to keep your religion to yourself for a few hours a day? I like my guns but I don't talk about them at work (when I had a job, currently laid off) to people who I don't know won't freak out about it.

This has already been decided in lots of courts a long time ago - no religion in public school. Doing otherwise will get you in trouble.

This has got to be one of the most ignorant and short-sighted posts I have ever seen in this forum. I'll pray whenever and where ever I want. It is just as protected as free speech.

The only issue would be if I prayed, read the Bible, talked about guns/car/motorcycles/football, or what-have-you in the middle of a meeting or forced everyone to pray with me. Otherwise, me saying a prayer is my own business and none of yours.

IMHO, anti-religion persons are not very different from anti-gun individuals. Just because you have no use for it, it doesn't mean you are in the right to force others to give it up. Offering students the option of a mealtime prayer is not as oppressive as it sounds. In the military, Chaplains do just it all the time. Those who do not wish to participate can step out of formation or just take a "mental snooze".

If it's good enough for our troops, how come it's not good enough for everyone else? JM2CW.

[JGou812]

There seems to be some debate on that...



<snip>

There are 2 events post-settlement they are talking about. One with students, and one without. Did you read it?

[Left Sig]

Ignorant and short-sighted? Try responding to my argument rather than making ad hominem attacks.

I suggest reading the damn article and see what they were doing:

For example, the Pace High School teachers handbook asks teachers to 'embrace every opportunity to inculcate, by precept and example, the practice of every Christian virtue.'

Sounds like the school was advocating a specific religion, doesn't it?

Mr. Lay, a deacon at a local Baptist church, asked Mr. Freeman to offer mealtime prayers at a lunch for school employees and booster-club members who had helped with a school field-house project.

Sounds like someone was leading a prayer in the middle of a lunch meeting, doesn't it?

If people want to pray on their own, fine. I never said anyone should stop them. My reference to "prayer" in my earlier post meant organized sanctioned prayer led by school officials, as occurred in this case. No one is being prosecuted for praying on his or her own - that wasn't even part of the discussion.

The issues at hand are a school official leading a prayer at an official function, and a handbook that advocated the teachings of a specific religion, both of which are clear violations of legions of 1st amendment case law with regard to public schools.

If the teachers or administrators at said school are too ignorant or short-sighted to heed clear 1st amendment guidelines, god help them.

And please don't equate the military with public schools. Take about apples and oranges. Soldiers give up their rights when they enlist. What's good for them, is NOT good enough for everyone else who has not agreed to give up their rights. Even if a soldier objects to the promotion of religion around him, he is hardly in a position to do much about it by suing his command on 1st amendment grounds.

[bkb0000]

Ignorant and short-sighted? Try responding to my argument rather than making ad hominem attacks.

I suggest reading the damn article and see what they were doing:



Sounds like the school was advocating a specific religion, doesn't it?



Sounds like someone was leading a prayer in the middle of a lunch meeting, doesn't it?

If people want to pray on their own, fine. I never said anyone should stop them. My reference to "prayer" in my earlier post meant organized sanctioned prayer led by school officials, as occurred in this case. No one is being prosecuted for praying on his or her own - that wasn't even part of the discussion.

The issues at hand are a school official leading a prayer at an official function, and a handbook that advocated the teachings of a specific religion, both of which are clear violations of legions of 1st amendment case law with regard to public schools.

If the teachers or administrators at said school are too ignorant or short-sighted to heed clear 1st amendment guidelines, god help them.

i'm glad you specified first amendment case law, because case-law is not consitutional. you might accept every verdict handed down by the ****s sitting on the SCOTUS, but i strongly suggest people take their politically motivated opinions with a truckload of salt.

again- the first amendment protects religion, and the only way it protects you from religion is by prohibiting the federal government from instating a national religion. teachers leading faculty in prayer doesn't equate to the government institution of mandatory religion.

[dmanflynn]

In a case where school employees are forcing a religion I personally dont think it should be done. But Keeping kids from praying to God during a speech is pushin it. The fact that if a muslim taught there and kids complained about them forcing their religion on people the ACLU would run to the musims defence is what gripes my craw. Students can and should practice their religion daily and all day. Im in no way condoning standing out in the halls or lunch room and making sure everyone heres me pray. Thats like the polar opposite of prayer. But if I want to pray in a speech who are you to tell me I cant? If im giving a speech am i not conveying my ideals? As long as im not pushing a religion onto anyone whats the deal? If I teach a subject and dont inpede on my planned lesson where does it say I cant talk about my religion?

Whether your a believer or not, this country was founded on the basis of religious freedom and the freedom to do so how you wish. And quite frankly it aint so anymore unfortunately. Hell, saying the pledge isnt to common anymore either. I've moved around a little from school to school and alot of them you can get into big time trouble for trying to read your bible in study hall/lunch etc. And its a shame. I pray for my food every day, and ill read my bible whenever I feel the need to as long as it doesn't impede learning time. I just moved to a new school in south indiana and my previous one didnt even allow the pledge in the morning. People here looked at me crazy when I said its nice to be in a school that says the pledge and allows a prayer........ I think the real issue is the ACLU playing favorites with race religion and criminals. We should all have the right to practice/or choose not to practice religion anywhere anytime and if someone elses religion offends you then tough stuff. (except a religion that explicitly states to kill others) The thing is the ACLU has virtually made a career out of silencing Christians in general. Ask your atheist self why they'd do that. Look at how many cases they defend other religions yet pummel Christianity into the ground, FREEDOM?! Plus if you think about it, the kids don't choose to be at school any way, so why should they be brought to a place without choice and be told to turn their religion off? If religious freedom bothers anyone out there, grow up and move to russia or NK with kimy jung ill. Im sure he'll greet you with openly censored arms.

[Honu]

pretty much my thoughts also

In a case where school employees are forcing a religion I personally dont think it should be done. But Keeping kids from praying to God during a speech is pushin it. The fact that if a muslim taught there and kids complained about them forcing their religion on people the ACLU would run to the musims defence is what gripes my craw. Students can and should practice their religion daily and all day. Im in no way condoning standing out in the halls or lunch room and making sure everyone heres me pray. Thats like the polar opposite of prayer. But if I want to pray in a speech who are you to tell me I cant? If im giving a speech am i not conveying my ideals? As long as im not pushing a religion onto anyone whats the deal? If I teach a subject and dont inpede on my planned lesson where does it say I cant talk about my religion?

Whether your a believer or not, this country was founded on the basis of religious freedom and the freedom to do so how you wish. And quite frankly it aint so anymore unfortunately. Hell, saying the pledge isnt to common anymore either. I've moved around a little from school to school and alot of them you can get into big time trouble for trying to read your bible in study hall/lunch etc. And its a shame. I pray for my food every day, and ill read my bible whenever I feel the need to as long as it doesn't impede learning time. I just moved to a new school in south indiana and my previous one didnt even allow the pledge in the morning. People here looked at me crazy when I said its nice to be in a school that says the pledge and allows a prayer........ I think the real issue is the ACLU playing favorites with race religion and criminals. We should all have the right to practice/or choose not to practice religion anywhere anytime and if someone elses religion offends you then tough stuff. (except a religion that explicitly states to kill others) The thing is the ACLU has virtually made a career out of silencing Christians in general. Ask your atheist self why they'd do that. Look at how many cases they defend other religions yet pummel Christianity into the ground, FREEDOM?! Plus if you think about it, the kids don't choose to be at school any way, so why should they be brought to a place without choice and be told to turn their religion off? If religious freedom bothers anyone out there, grow up and move to russia or NK with kimy jung ill. Im sure he'll greet you with openly censored arms.