LONG GUN AND MOVEMENT CONSIDERATIONS

[tpd223]

Hey, I got stopped for speeding one night by a trooper, I was enroute to a Guard event (I was still in back then) in BDUs and had an M14 on the back seat of my car. Since we had a real problem with "militias" (I know, and you know, but I think you also know what I mean) that went under the Posse Comitatus label threatening LEOs in our state, you bet your ass I had the dome light on and my hands out the driver window before he walked up to my car.


Back on long guns and walking.

The thought occurs to me that it would be a good idea to have some sort of camo cover, preferably waterproof, or extra large trash bags to go with the cover/case, just in case you needed to stash or cache the rifle somewhere.

[PA PATRIOT]

Better brush up on your PA law. According to the PA law firearms can NOT be confiscated (and your disarming a armed civilian is confiscating) in a time of crisis, and civilians legally can be armed and openly displaying their long guns. Not trying to be personal Phila PD but unless the said person is doing something illegal (looting, opening fire on other civilians, etc) LEO have no grounds to disarm them. I know things are a little different out there in the big city, then here in South Central PA, but a natural disaster or social breakdown doesn't mean that the law can be disregarded, by civilians or LEO.
Besides that, if the situation is bad enough that I'd be openly carrying my AR, most LEO that I know would be more worried about taking care of their own family than worrying about armed civilians. After Hurricane Katrina, many of the local police officers (especially in New Orleans) headed for the hills with their families. They didn't give a shit about protecting the public. Same thing happened in Biloxi MS and other areas along the coast.

Please contact the Attorney Generals Office of PA and inquire about PA gun law and PA Court Case pertaining to Open Carry and Concealed Carry within the state during normal and times of crisis. Not trying to be personal but you really seem to have some serious misconceptions on legal reality and case law were police have a legal right to stop and investigate. Disarming is not confiscation by any means and its has been up-held by case law as a officer safety issue. That said the last thing I would wish to do is confiscate a weapon from a person during a SHTF event, but in the course of restoring order the police at some point have to see who the good and bad guys are carrying those weapons. Good guys have nothing to fear by me and will be free to continue their mission after a brief stop. Since I can not assume intent by mere appearance I have to do my thing for the safely of all. Its not personal, just business.

As to other police "Running for the hills" this maybe true as I was not there to say other wise. But as any another father, husband I would of course make sure my family was safe and on their way and then return to my duties unless my city was a mushroom cloud. Barring that I will do my duty as I have for the past 27 years of combined military and L/E service. I can also attest that many of my co-worker would do the same.

[seang]

dmcmanus,

I work for an agency that is located in a rural area, but part of the county is in urban area also. They have their own LE, but we serve warrants, civil process, and will back them up when necessary or vice-versa. We answer calls for any residence outside of the county,which is over half the population.

I can't speak for every agency, but I think people should not be worried if they have an OD green back pack, tactical pants or a visible rifle. This would be the least of my worries This is my belief if we are speaking a TRUE SHTF country wide. If we are talking a part of a state or even a whole state, I wouldn't agree with what I said. I am thinking countrywide or a major regional area of the country.

People have to remember LE is outnumbered by far and I think if LE stayed organized it would be in communities near government centers. In rural areas people are crazy if they think there would be some quick, organized, response. Again, if citizens are on foot, I am assuming most LE would have to be to. What are the chances a person would be able to contact le to come respond to their home in this type of situation? I would hope and belive my agency would attempt to set up patrols for rural areas in the county, but it's going to be hard to patrol on foot and cover all that ground. Won't happen easily without vehicles.

I think you have to consider if you started off on foot right away or has time passed between the "event" and when you start traveling on foot? If I weren't LE I would still try to stay home as long as possible, depending on the situation. The longer the time between the "event" and starting on foot, the more likely many other people are doing what you are doing. Meaning, traveling with firearms and such may be a very common sight. Those who weren't or had no plans or preps may be long gone.

Again, maybe I am thinking much worse than some of you. I am thinking of something very severe that interferes with our infrastructure such as roads, communications, power, etc..... all at the same time or at least several major things at once. I am thinking much bigger than Katrina.

Edited to add: I agree temporarily disarming someone is not confiscating. The situation I am thinking though, there would be no way to do a terry stop on everyone with a gun. If a situation is more localized you should expect a terry stop, but nation wise SHTF, it might happen at first, but I think armed people would become a common sight quickly. Terry stops would then be reserved for those who appear to be conducting or about to conduct criminal activity.

[Outlander Systems]

SeanG: "I am thinking much bigger than Katrina."

I think I'm tracking with you. If it comes down to foot-travel with long-gun in tow, I can't imagine it being less than something truly horrible.

On this topic, I'm talking something bigger and badder than what we're "used to".

Phila: "Bad guys come in all shapes and sizes."

As someone who, to borrow from Tolkien, "Looks foul, but feels fair". I appreciate that. Most of the people I've met, who are truly gnarly on the inside, appear to be dashing on the exterior.

ETA:

Am I the only "child of the Cold War" who still hasn't shaken concerns of thermonuclear warfare?

[Luke_Y]

This could open a few more options as to discrete transport/carry of a long gun. (better optics/buis should go without saying)

[Mac5.56]

Am I the only "child of the Cold War" who still hasn't shaken concerns of thermonuclear warfare?

No not at all. I think there will be another nuclear weapon attack in the worlds history. Will it involve the United States? That I don't know, but there are just too many players now for them all to follow the doctrine of mutual deterrents. And the fact that religion is at the heart of some of these nations infrastructure/belief structure it is pretty much a definite! Zealots with guns are one thing. Zealots with nukes... Well.

[PA PATRIOT]

This could open a few more options as to discrete transport/carry of a long gun. (better optics/buis should go without saying)

I like it, who makes it and were can I find one.

[Aries144]

ghjkl

[Shibumi]

I have given this great thought, and here is my position.
There are two catagories for this:

1-Very tense environment, I am on foot, have to get to destination.

Or

2-Very tense environment, contact likely, SHTF, on foot, have to get there!

1-Handgun, Glock 22, extra mags, running shoes, water, and power bars.
With quality training, you can hit at 100 yards with 12" with a .40 cal. Most people suck at shooting, and worse at a moving target. My goal is fast movement with minimal baggage, adequate firepower to deal with direct threats.
I would carry concealed until needed, and be low profile.

2-M-4, Glock 22, extra mags, running shoes, water, powerbars.
With quality training, you can hit very well out to 600 with an Eotech, and M-4. Semi auto you can go lots of damage with 13 mags. 12 in vest, 1 in rifle.
Camelback with water, minimal baggage, you should be able to get where you need to go safely.
M-4 not concealed, Glock in dropdown, and not being an easy target. If things are that bad, the cops are most likely nowhere in the area, and/or National Guard is enroute. Think LA riots. One person on foot had better look capable, or like Clint Smith says, "If you look like food, your going to get eaten!".
Not looking for trouble, not brandishing, but minding my own business, and just moving through. Some people may need to be told this, while you keep moving.
At that point, there will be tastier targets, and nobody wants to mess with a porcuipine. Not worth it, and if I run into LE, I will comply as directed, and explain myself. Obviously it will save everyone time and hassle to avoid all types, good and bad if you travel at night, or dawn, and avoid contact.
Ultimately avoid trouble enroute, but always have a plan to deal with everyone you encounter.

[jhs1969]

I've kept an eye on this thread off and on for awhile now. I don't think any response can be labeled as 'wrong' nor 'right' for every situation.

I will try to give a quick insight into my situation;

I think most of these situations will be affected by location. I am going to asume that something very serious has happened to remove the ability to travel by vehicle, I will not even begin to take guesses as to what. I will also assume that it will also affect the general population as well, otherwise I'm not going to bug out on foot when we have two vehicles available to us.

My wife and I have already discussed this type of scenario several times and have a handful of plans worked out, dependant on the type of situation and destination.

Location,
We live in what may best be described as the foothills of the Smokey Mountains, while we refer to local topographies as ridges and valleys, most outsiders still call them moutains. And they can still be very rugged in certain locations even though they are not nearly the size of the Smokeys.

We have two main destinations if we needed to move out. The primary destination is 23 miles by road and 14 miles by direct route. The secondary destination is 6 miles by road and 3 miles direct. I will discuss the primary destination.

The primary is the primary because it will be more dependant on us for security and maintance (firewood/food/repairs etc.) as well as providing much better opportunities for hunting (small and large game) gardening, water and, depending on circumstances, firewood and cabin building materials.

Although it is 23 miles by road compared to 14 miles direct, the road route will be the easiest and quickest and can be done in one long day if no conflicts are encountered. The 14 mile route will cross some very rugged terrain and will take at least two days and possibly three but offers the ability to travel unseen. If the possibility of a conflit is high we will most likey take the 14 mile direct route, and if moving at night we can almost completely avoid two legged contacts.

So if some situation has caused us to bug out on foot there is no doubt we will both be carrying rifles and pistols without regard to concealing them, and will be carrying heavy loads as the primary destination will most likey be the long term living quarters. Although to get most of our gear there may require two to three return trips depending on the situation and how much our gear and tools may be needed at the new location. Most likely I will make the return trips solo to increase speed and decrease risk to my family.

This has been a very intresting thread and seems to be based very much on each persons location as well the severity of the preceived cause of disruption. I will have to continue to keep an eye on this one.