LONG GUN AND MOVEMENT CONSIDERATIONS

[they]

Has anybody ran one of these hard? Any firsthand experience? I know that anything less than a decked out Noveske with a S&B Short Dot is scoffed at around here but this might be a cheap and viable long gun solution. I know that I would rather lose one of these topped with an aimpoint than a $2000 SBR with all the toppings.

one of my buds kaboomed one of those...

not reccomended..

The whole point behind a long gun is that, if they see you... then it's too late...

Hide it in the truck, or whatever... until it's go time... but don't compremise on some bullshit gun because "it folds"..

Odds are, if you have any long gun, you will be noticed.. and being noticed is not always a bad thing...

[Mac5.56]

Think about if from a group of shitbags point of view who is hungry etc.... You see a man and a woman traveling. Each has a backpack, but neither "appears" to be armed. You also see a man and a woman traveling and you see the man has a rifle in his hands. Which one would you approach and try to steal their stuff? There will be so many people traveling unarmed or appear to be unarmed that it won't pay to mess with the openly armed people. That's how I see it anyways.

If people are leaving their homes, bad stuff is happening. I think for all of us, the goal would be to stay home or go to our safe location near our home. If things are bad enough you are leaving your home for the "unknown", then I think you will be fine carrying a rifle for everyone to see (Assuming you can't drive and keep your rifle out of view).Once things have gotten to that point, I don't see law enforcement messing with you in most circumstances. I think law enforcement will be overwhelmed by then and will be capable of dealing with emergencies only (if that).

I am not trying to doubt you, or be dis-respectful but my first question for you would be what is your location in the U.S.? Are you a rural LE, or an Urban LE? If you read my above posts I live in a sub-urban (not a suburban) environment. It borders on rural, and is basically a tourist/college town. I work as a bouncer at one of the many bars in town, and I deal with the police on a regular basis. I also watch their tactics as I walk home at night. There are some GREAT officers on my force, but please understand that my town devolves into chaos EVERY Thu, Fri, Sat night between the hours of 3 - 5 am. I have watched the cops become so frustrated and overwhelmed with the chaos that they fall back to their tasers and pepper spray in order to just make it through the night. There is also a history in my town. In 2004 some wingnut went off his meds, took a loaded AK, and walked down Main St. He shot about 150 rounds into buildings before he ran out of ammo. The police got a lot of shit for allowing it to go on that long, and are now more aggressive. Each officer carries a patrol rifle (AR-15) in the trunk, and they are for lack of a better phrase high strung, and sensitive to rifles.

Despite the fact that I know many of these guys, and deal with them often, I honestly believe that in a situation like you describe that I would be more at risk of my life by coming into contact with a police officer in my town while open carrying my M4, then I would be by some "thug". In NYC the cops call it "suicide by cop", when someone wants to die, and they flash a weapon or look alike at the officer.

Once I get out of the College induced party apocalypse that is my shty little town, then yes I agree with you, open carrying would be fine.

[rob_s]

I don't see the Kel Tecs as a "blast all day" or "run it hard" kind of solution. I see it more like a car jack, hidden away until/if you need it.

If I went that route I'd fire a few rounds to get it zeroed and check for basic function, and then pack it away.

[tpd223]

I have never shot the .223 Kel Tech, but I have seen three of the 9mm versions, all three were unreliable.

I'd rather have a folding stocked 10-22, at least I know it would be reliable.

[LOKNLOD]

My buddy has one of the SU16C models, and it's a neat little carbine. Unfortunately it choked on the first range session -- case stuck in the chamber that wouldn't come out...which reminds me, I need to ask him if he's still got it, because I doubt he ever got it sorted out (and this was several years ago!)

Some issues like that would need to be sorted out or verified as non-issues before committing to one.

[rob_s]

LOK, my first guess (and part of what I'd do if I ever picked one up) is that the chamber likely could stand a reaming with one of Ned's tools.

[LOKNLOD]

LOK, my first guess (and part of what I'd do if I ever picked one up) is that the chamber likely could stand a reaming with one of Ned's tools.

Knowing what I know now, that's my thought also. At the time I had no clue. What's sad is that I bet that casing is still stuck in there to this day

[PA PATRIOT]

I have never shot the .223 Kel Tech, but I have seen three of the 9mm versions, all three were unreliable.

I'd rather have a folding stocked 10-22, at least I know it would be reliable.

I have a 9mm version that uses Glock Magazines, and while I admit she has been returned to Kel-Tec once for repairs 2300rds later she is still going strong. Kel-Tec told me that they installed a so called "LE Spring Kit" and a few other Mods which worked out all of her bugs. I do use this folding carbine with a few 33rd magazines for road trips and vacations and while its not perfect the Kel-Tec Sub-2000 is sure compact & light weight, has decent fire power and accurate to make head shots out to 50yds.

The "LE" spring kit story may be a Kel-Tec bull job but its listed on the repair list returned with the gun.

[Mr.Goodtimes]

Depending on much shit has hit the fan and the size of the fan, thats going to dictate how and what i carry.

If things are so bad that i cant travel by vehicle for fear of getting IED'd or ambushed, ill be roaming the streets with my M4, Beretta (in a drop leg holster), Chest rig (8 rifle mags, 4 pistol) three day pack etc.. full ass kickin battle load out. I think that if things are that ugly, I wanna be ready for damn near anything. Also, if things get so bad that I cant drive around, im not going to just be going for a stroll down to the local super wallmart. at this point, open carry, weather legal or not in your area, probably isnt going to matter much.

Say we get a hurricane Katrina, things are kinda shady but, there still some social order remaining.. In that case, id carry the same load as above, only concealed in something like a sneaky bag with my beretta in my waist band. Or most likely, just leave it all in the truck and only carry the beretta. if i need it i wont be far from the truck, and i can use my handgun to fight my way back to my long gun. I think that this also applies in the case of a really crummy economy as well.

The only time i would be carrying open, all tacticooled out would be if there is some serious shit hitting the fan, roaming gangs, looters etc... i guess cases were this would apply would be post government collapse, post SEVERE natural disaster, or maybe a combination depression/gov instability.

[theJanitor]

Ok, I got a question regarding an SBR

I live in a non NFA state, so no SBR's, supressors, etc. And i live in a 100% urban area. Carrying and hiding a SBR would be extremely advantageous in a BAD situation.

but could i buy a short upper? and not assemble it onto any lower? just stash it away in the SHTF box? Only assemble it if i had to move out on foot? I would have to assume that for me to leave my apartment building, everything, including general lawfulness, has disappeared. following NFA rules would be the last thing on my mind. Heck, in my no CCW state, putting a pistol in my IWB holster and moving out is breaking the rules, would the SBR be worse?