Magwell grip or Vfg for rifle length???Pros - Cons ???

[BLACK LION]

I used the search function to see if this had been discussed but I didnt find anything. Please forgive me if I lit a fire that had already been put out before...


I see alot of mixed "grips" and the two that have stood out the most are the magwell grip and the use of the vertical foregrip.... of course there are different variations of both that have spawned...

Different people advocate different things so I am trying to find out what the pros and cons are using both the magwell grip with thumb above the barrrel and pushed forward or Vfg with thumb above the barrel and pushed forward...

This is using a rifle length stock/buffer tube and midlength handguard...

I can see the benefit of a vfg grip over the mwg when using a car stock/buffer tube but I run a rifle stock and have a hard time noticing the difference in rigidity and stability between the 2...

thanks

[Derek_Connor]

I used the search function to see if this had been discussed but I didnt find anything. Please forgive me if I lit a fire that had already been put out before...


I see alot of mixed "grips" and the two that have stood out the most are the magwell grip and the use of the vertical foregrip.... of course there are different variations of both that have spawned...

Different people advocate different things so I am trying to find out what the pros and cons are using both the magwell grip with thumb above the barrrel and pushed forward or Vfg with thumb above the barrel and pushed forward...

This is using a rifle length stock/buffer tube and midlength handguard...

I can see the benefit of a vfg grip over the mwg when using a car stock/buffer tube but I run a rifle stock and have a hard time noticing the difference in rigidity and stability between the 2...

thanks

go out and download/research 3 popular AR15/Carbine drills.

Run each one with the mag-well grip and one with the VFG/Rail Grip.

See if there is any significant difference in accuracy, shot placement, follow up shots, time, etc...

I'll put a bottle of bud heavy on it that you will shoot better with your hand further out on the rail/handguard..

[Failure2Stop]

Good shooters will shoot better with a fuller extension of the support arm.
There are many more considerations that go into perfecting support hand grip than what makes the difference between a good shooter and a great shooter.
Wearing armor, stock length, rail attachments, optics, etc will all influence how the gun balances and performs.
That being said, a high grip (with or without VFG), extended to the proper position with the proper amount of rearward pressure will result in better shooting and more solid target to target transitions.
Frankly, to truly understand these aspects you will need to find a good trainer and learn.

[LOKNLOD]

Take this for what its worth, as I am no expert, but I believe this is rooted firmly in the physics of the matter, regardless of operational experience:

Shooting from the magwell grip, is like writing while holding a pencil by the eraser. Small adjustments at the grip make larger adjustments at the muzzle, and the longer the barrel the worse this effect is. You have less precise control and this will be especially apparent when driving the gun between multiple targets. You'll be able to start/stop the motion of rifle relative to the target much more exactly. It will also give you better control of recoil and muzzle rise. It's all about leverage.

To have the best control of anything, you're going to want to choose a control point as close it as possible. You grab a pencil near the tip, not the eraser. You grab a waterhose at the nozzle, not a foot back. Taking it the opposite direction, imagine swinging a baseball bat or golf club by a normal grip, and then trying to make it stop at a finite point in space. Not going to happen - it's either going to overshoot the target because you swung too hard, or it's going to ease into position slowly because you had to nancy it to maintain control. It's less exaggerated, but the same thing happens with the muzzle of your rifle.

I do think the magwell grip is comfortable for holding the gun for a long time on target. If your grip is normally further out, you can always still revert your grip to the magwell if you find yourself in a situation where it becomes viable. I'd rather optimize my rifle for shooting, and make adjustments for non-shooting situations, than the other way around.

Just my 1.5 cents.

[BLACK LION]

I do think the magwell grip is comfortable for holding the gun for a long time on target. If your grip is normally further out, you can always still revert your grip to the magwell if you find yourself in a situation where it becomes viable. I'd rather optimize my rifle for shooting, and make adjustments for non-shooting situations, than the other way around.

Just my 1.5 cents.

This makes alot of sense to me...

I was under the mindset I had to choose one and stick with it since there are trainers that drive finding that same "reference point" into you...
I like the principles of using the "competition grip" with the vfg but I also find that taking those same principles and using them with a "modified magwell grip" its less stress on my elbow and more comfortable for shooting distances whith longer intervals between shots...
As stated above... armor, gear , stock and barrel length, time between shots, distance to target etc. all play a role in placement and what is considered a "reference point"...
I find that maybe shooting longer distances with more time in betweren shots the "competition" magwell grip is more comfortable whereas the "competition" grip on with the vfg is more "high speed low drag" in a cqb environment or anything within 100 yds....



I really like the idea of using them both and trying to work them into my all around shooting capability...



Thanks...

[BLACK LION]

go out and download/research 3 popular AR15/Carbine drills.

Run each one with the mag-well grip and one with the VFG/Rail Grip.

See if there is any significant difference in accuracy, shot placement, follow up shots, time, etc...

I'll put a bottle of bud heavy on it that you will shoot better with your hand further out on the rail/handguard..

I agree...

however I do see some merit in using a "combetition" grip with the magwell crook as a reference point...

[BLACK LION]

Good shooters will shoot better with a fuller extension of the support arm.
There are many more considerations that go into perfecting support hand grip than what makes the difference between a good shooter and a great shooter.
Wearing armor, stock length, rail attachments, optics, etc will all influence how the gun balances and performs.
That being said, a high grip (with or without VFG), extended to the proper position with the proper amount of rearward pressure will result in better shooting and more solid target to target transitions.
Frankly, to truly understand these aspects you will need to find a good trainer and learn.

I understand completely and I am gald you pointed it out this way....

As far as training goes its pretty much up to me to train and practice on my own till something comes my way....
I am looking into getting into some things here locally in San Diego as well as springing for an airsoft primary and secondary to increase my training and practice time in a more practical way...
I do have a "hit list" of outfits I would like to train under when the opportunity comes around again.

US trainig center has a facility here and I am sure the magpul guys will be around again... just to name a couple I have in mind...

[Derek_Connor]

however I do see some merit in using a "combetition" grip with the magwell crook as a reference point...

how so?

[Redhat]

Couple of additional reasons I don't like it:

1. When an AR15 "blows" the magazine and mag well are usually damaged from gas pressure escaping downward...don't want my hand there if it happens.

2. I have seen shooters cause stoppages when a finger or thumb (left handers) unintentionally blocks the ejection port.

[BLACK LION]

how so?

Distance... longer intervals between shoots...maintiaining the same shooting position for an extended period of time... basically from a "marksman" "sharpshooter" standpoint...
The hand wouldnt be on the mag well per say...It would be gripping the handguard with the thumb driven forward and the pad under the pinkie pushed into the crook between the top of the lower receiver and the lower part of the handguard...


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